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Thread: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians ...

  1. #161
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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    Spoken like a true person who wasn't been in war.
    Guess we will find out.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  2. #162
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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Guess we will find out.
    After you lose some close friends to the enemy then you can say if you don't hate them or not. There is a reason why discipline in vital to the military. Logic is thrown out the window and only discipline keeps the emotions in check. Just a Heads up Balling: There is a very good chance you will lose most if not all of your idealism after going to war.

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    given the current ROE, you can bet your ass that if you have to kill a total stranger it is because he has already tried to kill you. reason aplenty to hate him
    I don't think that's necessarily the case. If someone stuck you and another dude in a cage and told you guys to fight to the death, you'd kill him out of necessity not because you hate him because he's trying to kill you.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  4. #164
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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    After you lose some close friends to the enemy then you can say if you don't hate them or not. There is a reason why discipline in vital to the military. Logic is thrown out the window and only discipline keeps the emotions in check. Just a Heads up Balling: There is a very good chance you will lose most if not all of your idealism after going to war.
    I think you make some good points. IRL I usually tend to keep my emotions in check, but I agree combat is different.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  5. #165
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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I think you make some good points. IRL I usually tend to keep my emotions in check, but I agree combat is different.
    Like I said until you expereince it yourself Still us vet explaining it to you is like trying describe color to a blind person.

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    Like I said until you expereince it yourself Still us vet explaining it to you is like trying describe color to a blind person.
    I agree.

    10 chars.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  7. #167
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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I don't think that's necessarily the case. If someone stuck you and another dude in a cage and told you guys to fight to the death, you'd kill him out of necessity not because you hate him because he's trying to kill you.
    yeah, we're talking real world...not freakin thunderdome.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  8. #168
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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    yeah, we're talking real world...not freakin thunderdome.
    It was just an analogy. Yes I realize that I haven't been to war, while others have, and yes that gives you more authority on the subject. All I'm saying is I wouldn't necessarily hate a guy JUST because he is trying to kill me. It would depend on why he was trying to kill me.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  9. #169
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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    breaking today, msnbc led with it this morning:

    During the first five months of last year, a platoon of U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan went on a shooting spree, killing at least four unarmed civilians and mutilating several of the corpses. The “kill team” – members of the 5th Stryker Brigade stationed near Kandahar – took scores of photos chronicling their kills and their time in Afghanistan. Even before the war crimes became public, the Pentagon went to extraordinary measures to suppress the photos, launching a massive effort to find every file and pull the pictures out of circulation before they could touch off a scandal on the scale of Abu Ghraib.

    The images – more than 150 of which have been obtained by Rolling Stone – portray a front-line culture among U.S. troops in which killing innocent civilians is seen as a cause for celebration. “Most people within the unit disliked the Afghan people,” one of the soldiers told Army investigators. “Everyone would say they’re savages.”

    Many of the photos depict explicit images of violent deaths that have yet to be identified by the Pentagon. Among the soldiers, the collection was treated like a war memento. It was passed from man to man on thumb drives and hard drives, the gruesome images of corpses and war atrocities filed alongside clips of TV shows, UFC fights and films such as Iron Man 2. One soldier kept a complete set, which he made available to anyone who asked.
    The Kill Team Photos: | Rolling Stone Politics | Photos

  10. #170
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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    uh oh

    unarmed civilians murdered

    guns and other weapons planted beside their bodies

    mutilations, body parts removed

    fingers, skulls

    used as trophies

    a dead boy's finger used as a gambling chip in a poker game

    dead bodies manipulated to look as if they're talking and gesticulating

    all filmed and passed around

    the "kill team" emboldened by lack of policing by superiors

    operated in the open, in plain view of the entire company

    their actions common knowledge

    attempts by higher ups in the pentagon to cover up

    it sounds a lot worse than abu ghraib

    sorry

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