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Thread: Arab League condemns broad bombing campaign in Libya

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    Re: Arab League condemns broad bombing campaign in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    It would be very Islamic of him. When in doubt and when looking for a rallying cause, remind the people who they are supposed to hate.

    So much between Libya and Pakistan are so related and common that it staggers me how people demand they all be a separate issues simply because they see borders on a map. It's funny how they all come down to oppression and brutality, the same radical religious angles, dictators, former Cold War issues still lingering, and the bitter Sunni tribe. The Western blinders are as black as ever. Looking at the situation through cultural lenses will make those impractical lines on a map dissapear. Then people in the West will begin looking at this like the Muslims in the MENA region do.
    And these "borders on a map" were place there not by Muslims but willy nilly by the Western powers of the day. There is no reason why the people who had these borders imposed on the should respect them.

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    Re: Arab League condemns broad bombing campaign in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It is humiliating and holds very negative long term consequences that the Western democracies should be asking for permission from the Arab League or the UN as to what is best for the democracy, human rights, and the future of the world. These are the same despots who refuse to recognize women's rights. children's rights, human rights, religious rights, or basic human freedoms, and we have to ask them whether we can eliminate one of the world's most dangerous dictators, responsible for the deaths of thousands.
    There are other human rights tragedies in the world. Some are on a far larger scale than Libya. Why don't we start with THOSE? Why are human rights abuses and civil wars only deemed important in places when Anderson Cooper reports on them? And why can't we focus on the places where our presence would actually be appreciated instead of resented?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant
    What wimps we have become, and it will not serve us, or our children, well. We have apparently learned nothing from our fathers and grandfathers.
    It does not serve us well to assume that any intervention will have exactly the consequences we intend, and no more. History would indicate that this is an extremely dubious assumption. Is it possible that the campaign will quickly sweep Gaddafi out of power and usher in a democratic government? I suppose, but that's the best case scenario and far from the most likely outcome.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-21-11 at 05:46 PM.
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    Re: Arab League condemns broad bombing campaign in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I think we all know the differences. However, it is people like you that would get to the end of Obama's term and still be arguing that the piss poor job the partyer n chief has done is somehow Bush's fault.


    j-mac
    I wish you did J. I honestly do. But you're ignoring real differences to make a false point. Bush is responsible for Bush did. He oversold the Iraq war, and misled. He invaded on a pretext and recklessly spent US, coalition, and iraqi civilian lives.

    Bush didn't have active killing going on. He didn't aid a movement already in progress. And it was his people who foolishly painted too positive a picture of a post invasion Iraq, all too often bought by those too willing to accept mindless crap over sound reasoning and foresight.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Arab League condemns broad bombing campaign in Libya

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    There are other human rights tragedies in the world. Some are on a far larger scale than Libya. Why don't we start with THOSE? Why are human rights abuses and civil wars only deemed important in places when Anderson Cooper reports on them?
    There are already discussions on the Japanese tsunami, and people are probably saying there are other problems in the world besides that. Either contribute to subject at hand or you should move along to something which you find more interesting.


    It does not serve us well to assume that any intervention will have exactly the consequences we intend, and no more. History would indicate that this is an extremely dubious assumption. Is it possible that the campaign will quickly sweep Gaddafi out of power and usher in a democratic government? I suppose, but that's the best case scenario and far from the most likely outcome.
    Of course I never suggested that it would, and am far more skeptical than you siggest. That skepticism is due largely to the very weak leadership the democracies have right now and that they no long term planning. They are too easily duped.

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    Re: Arab League condemns broad bombing campaign in Libya


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    Re: Arab League condemns broad bombing campaign in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I wish you did J. I honestly do. But you're ignoring real differences to make a false point. Bush is responsible for Bush did. He oversold the Iraq war, and misled. He invaded on a pretext and recklessly spent US, coalition, and iraqi civilian lives.

    Bush didn't have active killing going on. He didn't aid a movement already in progress. And it was his people who foolishly painted too positive a picture of a post invasion Iraq, all too often bought by those too willing to accept mindless crap over sound reasoning and foresight.
    My God! Can't you Leftists ever get over George Bush? It's a whole new world on with an entire new set of problems and you're still going on about George Bush??

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    Re: Arab League condemns broad bombing campaign in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    My God! Can't you Leftists ever get over George Bush? It's a whole new world on with an entire new set of problems and you're still going on about George Bush??
    You misread. When your side says this is the same thing, when it clearly isn't, it is your side brining up Bush. All I'm doing is answering.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Arab League condemns broad bombing campaign in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    There are already discussions on the Japanese tsunami, and people are probably saying there are other problems in the world besides that. Either contribute to subject at hand or you should move along to something which you find more interesting.
    The point is that every soldier we commit to this is one soldier less that we could commit somewhere else. There are other places where there are human rights tragedies, where our help would actually be appreciated, and where we'd have a far higher chance of success. If we're going to get involved in military intervention for altruistic reasons, we could start with the high-priority places: South Sudan, Haiti, Cote d'Ivoire, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant
    Of course I never suggested that it would, and am far more skeptical than you siggest. That skepticism is due largely to the very weak leadership the democracies have right now and that they no long term planning. They are too easily duped.
    Heck I'd be happy with even some short-term planning. I don't see any indication that any of the NATO commanders have given the slightest thought to what the mission is. None of them can bring themselves to say that their goal is to depose Gaddafi, even though it obviously is. The mission creep has already begun, with a no-fly zone turning into air strikes.

    I agree about the long term planning though. In the long term, even if the campaign is successful, I see no reason to expect the successor government to be a huge improvement over Gaddafi. We have no idea who we're even allying with, and it's quite possible that we'll come to regret that decision a few years down the road.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-21-11 at 06:09 PM.
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    Re: Arab League condemns broad bombing campaign in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You misread. When your side says this is the same thing, when it clearly isn't, it is your side brining up Bush. All I'm doing is answering.
    "My side" has no interest in Bush. He is history. It's BHO now who is in charge and it's his policies which should be examined.

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    Re: Arab League condemns broad bombing campaign in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    "My side" has no interest in Bush. He is history. It's BHO now who is in charge and it's his policies which should be examined.
    Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. But the comparison has been made, and I'm simply pointing out the differences.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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