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Thread: Breaking News: 'To my Dear Obama, our son', says Gaddafi, defending attack on rebels

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshabar View Post
    Personally I usually watch CNN, al Jazeera and BBC for international news. I understand and discount the bias. Fox news is too singularly focused for my taste, it seems they can only do one news story at a time. You liberals who discount Fox News out of hand aren't doing yourself any favors though. An open mind is a beautiful thing.


    Would you mind posting a source for your comment? If it's true, that is very good news. Death from above seems to be Obama's preference. Unmanned drones. Doesn't make him any friends in the Middle East but there you go.

    I pray our military isn't dragged into another theater. Especially on the ground.
    Fox News just after the air strikes was the most confused (I watched Al J, Sky, CNN and Fox - Al J was by far the best and best connected and is clearly a force for democratic change in the region).

    Fox was desperately trying to work out a line. It almost eliminated any references to British and French participation - the usual chauvinistic xenophobia from them - but then was desperately looking to slag off Obama so it kept talking about the end game not being clear (is it in Afghanistan or Iraq?). It didn't advocate troops on the ground, nor did it go isolationist. It just slurred Obama for not having a magic instantaneous plan. Lots of "poor Libyans" and "we need to get Gaddafi". Few concrete suggestions other than to hand over to US allies and then it couldn't decide if this was a good ir a bad thing (so it implied that this was weakness by the US). This was followed by military experts belittling the role of allies. No mention that large numbers of cruise missiles were fired by British ships and subs (these were all described as American) or of the French aircraft carrier being sent. It was a disgraceful and incoherent piece of anti Obama American chauvinism. It was left to the odious John Bolton to inject any rigor into the debate (that's how bad it was that the most sensible thing was said by that thug) when he validly criticized the US administrations dithering on this and supported the action.

    Fox News is not a news channel. It's a source of information as to the "thinking" of the American Right. Watching them try to work out how to respond to an Obama war was interesting. It was entirely partisan as it struggled to work out a response to events.
    Last edited by Plato; 03-21-11 at 10:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    Fox seems to give more factual details in their stories. It has not been difficult for me to understand the bias of their presentation, and so far, I feel I have been able to form my own opinions.



    \\
    This is just crap. Fox was last with the facts. They had someone in Bengazi but hardly talked to him. They were much more interested in getting retired generals and admirals and right wing "commentators" to slur the Obama administrations military plan as flawed Abd even then it was all innuendo.
    There is a way to gain the whole world. It is to gain the people, and having gained them, one gains the whole world. There is a way to gain the people. Gain their hearts and minds and then you gain them. Mencius

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    Re: Breaking News: 'To my Dear Obama, our son', says Gaddafi, defending attack on reb

    [QUOTE=Plato;1059361788]



    Did you actually read up on anything before you posted this idiocy? The intervention is required to stop Gaddafi killing thousands of people in the event he forces them to surrender. I know the word "humanitarian" may be a dirty word to you, but there it is.
    Idiocy? It appears that perhaps your not from the U.S. so your opinion in this regard is worthless. Any intervention by force, acts of war needs to be approved by congress..period. What happens in Libya and it's internal affairs is none of our business, unless it poses a direct threat on the U.S. Now your little song and dance about humanitarian aide, well the U.S. puts out more humanitarian aide than any other country on this planet, you have no grounds for complaint here. Now whatever you opinion is about our politics, country, people etc., well your entitled.

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    Re: Breaking News: 'To my Dear Obama, our son', says Gaddafi, defending attack on reb

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post



    Idiocy? It appears that perhaps your not from the U.S. so your opinion in this regard is worthless. Any intervention by force, acts of war needs to be approved by congress..period.
    That's not exactly what our constitution says or how it's been interpreted.

    We haven't gone to war with Libya.


    What happens in Libya and it's internal affairs is none of our business, unless it poses a direct threat on the U.S. Now your little song and dance about humanitarian aide, well the U.S. puts out more humanitarian aide than any other country on this planet, you have no grounds for complaint here. Now whatever you opinion is about our politics, country, people etc., well your entitled.
    Why is it none of his business? Internal affairs? Huh...?

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    Re: Breaking News: 'To my Dear Obama, our son', says Gaddafi, defending attack on reb

    [QUOTE=hazlnut;1059363074]
    That's not exactly what our constitution says or how it's been interpreted.

    We haven't gone to war with Libya.
    Sending missiles into a foreign country without any provocation is a act of war. I do realize the the president has some maneuvering room on this but, again Libya posed no threat to us what so ever. Therefor Obama needed to consult with congress, just like Bush did and BTW I don't excuse Bush for his adventures either.












    Why is it none of his business? Internal affairs? Huh...?
    You typed, "his", who are you referring to?
    I typed, "our" and I am referring to the U.S., and yes it is none of our business and if you think otherwise then state why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    'Sitting on his hands', I suppose if you believe the Fox News narrative/spin. The black man in the white house can do nothing right.

    Reality: It is because of his administration, their maneuvering with the UN, that we are able to do something now.... Do you know anything about International Relations? This is not a Rambo action movie.



    Really, so just like in the movies, Rambo just shows up when there's trouble. Because there are no other real world diplomatic considerations.

    'Dithering' that's Sarah Palin's word, right? The most unqualified person to talk about a conflict on the African Continent. Which she thought was a country.



    Again, this is real life. You and Sarah watch too many movies.
    This post is rubbish and it's interesting to see how I'll informed Obama supporters are (generally I count myself as one but this is changing).

    The USA has dithered massively and it has taken aggressive action by France and the UK to bring thus UN resolution about. Try reading or watching international sources. US news coverage us generally dire ( with the exception of CNN International) and inward looking.

    US reticence is underlined by the unwillingness to lead this coalition. The US is extremely unpopular in the region as it us seen as a supporter of the status quo that jumps ship right at the last minute. This was what happened in Egypt. Earlier intervention in Libya when the tide was against Gadaffi would more than likely have resulted in bigger defections from his military and he would be in a much weaker position. All this has shown that Europe needs to be a much more effective military force as relying on the USA - even when a war us clearly in US interests as here - is not a satisfactory defense strategy.
    Last edited by Plato; 03-21-11 at 11:22 PM.
    There is a way to gain the whole world. It is to gain the people, and having gained them, one gains the whole world. There is a way to gain the people. Gain their hearts and minds and then you gain them. Mencius

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    Re: Breaking News: 'To my Dear Obama, our son', says Gaddafi, defending attack on reb

    [QUOTE=Plato;1059363179]
    The USA has dithered massively and it has taken aggressive action by France and the UK to bring thus UN resolution about. Try reading or watching international sources. US news coverage us generally dire ( with the exception of CNN International) and inward looking.
    This initiative France and the UK, particularly France, has come as a welcome surprise to many.

    All this has shown that Europe needs to be a much more effective military force as relying on the USA - even when a war us clearly in US interests as here - is not a satisfactory defense strategy.
    That's what many have been saying since the end of WWII.

    It seems clear enough that Libya is more in European interests than Americas. It was also the UK who made nice with Gadaffi by releasing the Libyan terrorist who murdered 190 American passengers, with rumours of oil deals surfacing soon after. This will certainly help square the deal.

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    [QUOTE=deltabtry;1059363110]
    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post

    Sending missiles into a foreign country without any provocation is a act of war. I do realize the the president has some maneuvering room on this but, again Libya posed no threat to us what so ever. Therefor Obama needed to consult with congress, just like Bush did and BTW I don't excuse Bush for his adventures either.

    You typed, "his", who are you referring to?
    I typed, "our" and I am referring to the U.S., and yes it is none of our business and if you think otherwise then state why.
    Isn't it obvious to you yet that the world is extremely highly interconnected? Libya is a massive oil producer and thus impacts the global economy. The region is a massive drag on international development due to its political regressiveness. A democratic secular region, possibly after a Turkish model, would provide both military stability (no attacks on Israel or terror attacks on Western interests by rogue governments) and markets to enable all our standards of living to continue. Isolated countries slip into economic decline.

    This is the self interest argument. A democratic Europe has clearly been in the interests of Americans since 1945 (and vice versa). The same would be true of the ME and North Africa.

    Do you have stock or 401k? Can't you see how interconnected the world is purely by observing the correlation between stock prices and world events?

    Isolationists baffle me. The ignorance of how the world works is startling.
    Last edited by Plato; 03-22-11 at 12:24 AM.
    There is a way to gain the whole world. It is to gain the people, and having gained them, one gains the whole world. There is a way to gain the people. Gain their hearts and minds and then you gain them. Mencius

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    [QUOTE=Grant;1059363205]
    Quote Originally Posted by Plato View Post


    This initiative France and the UK, particularly France, has come as a welcome surprise to many.



    That's what many have been saying since the end of WWII.

    It seems clear enough that Libya is more in European interests than Americas. It was also the UK who made nice with Gadaffi by releasing the Libyan terrorist who murdered 190 American passengers, with rumours of oil deals surfacing soon after. This will certainly help square the deal.
    You are surprised and you are not surprised?

    Did you not notice that the Libyan terrorist also murdered non Americans?

    You may have noticed that the UK has a different government now.
    There is a way to gain the whole world. It is to gain the people, and having gained them, one gains the whole world. There is a way to gain the people. Gain their hearts and minds and then you gain them. Mencius

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    Re: Breaking News: 'To my Dear Obama, our son', says Gaddafi, defending attack on reb

    [QUOTE=Plato;1059363247]
    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post

    Isn't it obvious to you yet that the world is extremely highly interconnected? Libya is a massive oil producer and thus impacts the global economy. The region is a massive drag on international development due to its political regressiveness. A democratic secular region, possibly after a Turkish model, would provide both military stability (no attacks on Israel or terror attacks on Western interests by rogue governments) and markets to enable all our standards of living to continue. Isolated countries slip into economic decline.

    This is the self interest argument. A democratic Europe has clearly been in the interests of Americans since 1945 (and vice versa). The same would be true of the ME and North Africa.

    Do you have stock or 401k? Can't you see how interconnected the world is purely by observing the correlation between stock prices and world events?

    Isolationists baffle me. The ignorance of how the world works is startling.
    No ones talking isolationist, we are talking about not being the world's policeman and being engaged in two wars currently is enough, not to mention a region which hostile to the U.S anyway. We also have a divided country currently in regards to our government not a good time to be starting something new like a war or some military incursion where collateral damage is very possible. Imagine the uproar the Arab league would have...like they always do with something goes wrong...enough already. This has to stop sometime, the U.S is broke and the people have had enough wars. I have nothing against Libya, it is that we just don't have a dog in this fight. BTW why only a few so called enlightened European countries are only involving themselves in this fight, militarily that is.

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