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Thread: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I'm still waiting to hear about the support from Congress. Where's the Declaration of War?
    I don't remember NATO declaring war, but I do think Congress should be required to vote as to whether we continue to provide support to the NATO mission to protect the Libyan people.
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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I don't remember NATO declaring war, but I do think Congress should be required to vote as to whether we continue to provide support to the NATO mission to protect the Libyan people.
    Well, aside from Obama saying this while campaigning....

    In a Dec. 20, 2007 interview with the Boston Globe, Obama was asked about the president's constitutional authority to bomb Iran without seeking authorization from Congress. "The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation," Obama said four years ago. "As commander in chief, the president does have a duty to protect and defend the United States. In instances of self-defense, the president would be within his constitutional authority to act before advising Congress or seeking its consent."
    As President, he says this:

    In a letter to Congress on Monday, Obama said he authorized the involvement of the U.S. military as part of a "multilateral response authorized under U.N. Security Council Resolution 1973."

    "I have directed these actions, which are in the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States, pursuant to my constitutional authority to conduct U.S. foreign relations and as Commander in Chief and Chief Executive," he said.
    Huh. Saying something as a candidate, then acting differently when elected. Unheard of.
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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    I haven't really been keeping up with Libya, but I'm curious as to why this issue hasn't been brought before Congress yet?
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    here is my problem i just cannot understand how dropping bombs on libya and killing civilians is helping them out.

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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Well, aside from Obama saying this while campaigning....



    As President, he says this:



    Huh. Saying something as a candidate, then acting differently when elected. Unheard of.

    Do you think that liberals are surprised that Obama is not the liberal that those on the right thought he was? We've known since his campaign when he made the speech below that he was not liberal when it came to war. However, our choice was between a candidate who was a moderate war hawk or a candidate who was an extreme war hawk. We chose the moderate.

    I've already stated that I think Congress should take a vote as to whether we continue to support this NATO action.

    "Good afternoon. Let me begin by saying that although this has been billed as an anti-war rally, I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances.

    The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union, and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil. I don’t oppose all wars.

    My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton’s army. He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil, and he did not fight in vain.

    I don’t oppose all wars.

    After September 11th, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this Administration’s pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such a tragedy from happening again.

    I don’t oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other arm-chair, weekend warriors in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

    What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income — to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

    That’s what I’m opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics."


    Read more at the Washington Examiner: Flashback: Obama's 2002 anti-war speech | David Freddoso | Beltway Confidential | Washington Examiner
    Last edited by Catawba; 03-22-11 at 01:49 PM.
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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    im pretty sure obama just bit off more than he can chew. its not that he is a moderate war hawk it is just that he is a confused person. He doesnt know what to do so he made a rash decision. In my opinion a bad decision.

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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by kwanawk View Post
    im pretty sure obama just bit off more than he can chew. its not that he is a moderate war hawk it is just that he is a confused person. He doesnt know what to do so he made a rash decision. In my opinion a bad decision.
    It was a NATO decision that even the Arab League signed on to. Congress has the option to defund our participation in the NATO action. I think they should vote on it.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It was a NATO decision that even the Arab League signed on to. Congress has the option to defund our participation in the NATO action. I think they should vote on it.
    You mean a UN security council decision don't you? I guess we are getting our marching orders from them in the end now anyway....Not congress.

    Where are you Mr. Madison?


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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Do you think that liberals are surprised that Obama is not the liberal that those on the right thought he was? We've known since his campaign when he made the speech below that he was not liberal when it came to war. However, our choice was between a candidate who was a moderate war hawk or a candidate who was an extreme war hawk. We chose the moderate.

    I've already stated that I think Congress should take a vote as to whether we continue to support this NATO action.

    "Good afternoon. Let me begin by saying that although this has been billed as an anti-war rally, I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances.

    The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union, and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil. I don’t oppose all wars.

    My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton’s army. He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil, and he did not fight in vain.

    I don’t oppose all wars.

    After September 11th, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this Administration’s pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such a tragedy from happening again.

    I don’t oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other arm-chair, weekend warriors in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

    What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income — to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

    That’s what I’m opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics."


    Read more at the Washington Examiner: Flashback: Obama's 2002 anti-war speech | David Freddoso | Beltway Confidential | Washington Examiner
    Man...what a great ****ing speech. It's too bad being President and giving great speeches are two different skill sets.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It was a NATO decision that even the Arab League signed on to. Congress has the option to defund our participation in the NATO action. I think they should vote on it.
    I thought they where for a no-fly zone? As in shoot down any plane that takes to the skies. This was a bombing mission and elites simply used "No-Fly Zone" to get it started. Any "accidental" civilian deaths from our planes should be considered terrorism and whoever marked the site for bombing needs to be brought into justice.
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