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Thread: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by USA_1 View Post
    Not much of a war. I hope Obama does a better job than the last knucklehead.
    It's actually a war run by a political committee with none of them wanting to take the responsibility for any failures, or deaths, and they can thus share the blame when things go wrong, and easily blame someone else. They know how the West will attack its own rather than those responsible for creating the chaos.

    The West is militarily strong but morally very weak. The Islamists are morally much stronger, even if we generally do not agree with those morals. They are convinced they'll win over the long term and I tend to agree with them..

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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    No, he has cleverly not put the US in position to be the aggressor in the mid-east and further terrorism as a result. Nice to see real diplomacy in action, its been awhile.
    Do you think the Islamists admire weakness? Do you think as a result of this dithering, and flying off to Brazil and El Salvador, they'll think he's really a nice guy, that his Nobel Prize was deserving, and that the American people should henceforth be safe and secure?

    I doubt the Islamic leaders are fooled by this 'cleverness'. They can read as well as you do, they just interpret it differently.

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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    We know the American religious far right views diplomacy as weakness. Whether or not their Islamic cousins do so or not is less certain.
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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It's actually a war run by a political committee with none of them wanting to take the responsibility for any failures, or deaths, and they can thus share the blame when things go wrong, and easily blame someone else. They know how the West will attack its own rather than those responsible for creating the chaos.

    The West is militarily strong but morally very weak. The Islamists are morally much stronger, even if we generally do not agree with those morals. They are convinced they'll win over the long term and I tend to agree with them..
    The West is militarily weak--if it wasn't, it would've made short work of the Third World fighting force known as the Taleban. The only "strength" the US military has are its high tech weapons, which are practically worthless in asymmetric warfare. If Qedafi wages it effectively, he'll prevail. But he's dumb, so he won't.

    Defeating the US is actually very easy. It's just that Qedafi is a brainless nut job who can't think straight. Of course, that applies to US corporate oil leadership as well, but this is simply one bunch of wimpy idiots (US oil interests) vs. another (Qedafi), and, alas, in this case, the oil interests are the smarter of the two, so they'll likely prevail.

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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    We know the American religious far right views diplomacy as weakness. Whether or not their Islamic cousins do so or not is less certain.
    Do "we" know that?

    Do you have a link?

    And i doubt the Islamists view Christians as their "cousins". The way they are treating Christians throughout the world, when they have the numbers in their favour, suggests they don't share the same familial attitudes as you think they do.

    What made you think they were 'cousins', in any respect?

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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do "we" know that?

    Do you have a link?

    And i doubt the Islamists view Christians as their "cousins". The way they are treating Christians throughout the world, when they have the numbers in their favour, suggests they don't share the same familial attitudes as you think they do.

    What made you think they were 'cousins', in any respect?
    It's like Calvin VS the Catholic Church all over again.

    Nevermind the similarities - there's one differe *here* and *here*

    Reminds me of an EMO Phillips joke. . .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDmeqSzvIFs
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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    The West is militarily weak--if it wasn't, it would've made short work of the Third World fighting force known as the Taleban. The only "strength" the US military has are its high tech weapons, which are practically worthless in asymmetric warfare. If Qedafi wages it effectively, he'll prevail. But he's dumb, so he won't.
    The West has a stockpile of nuclear weapons and missiles which could destroy Afghanistan and the Middle East in a few hours. We all know that. We also know that they are useless, because they will never be used.

    What the Islamists will do is win the war politically, just as in the case of Vietnam, and they are better educated in the ways of war then the west is. We tend to think that war is all about boots on the ground and planes in the air but that's no longer true at all. It's all about will. Who believes in their culture and philosophies more. More and more they will control the language, as Orwell so insightfully knew, and that is a hugely important element. They will also separate the democracies into different camps in the old divide and conquer fashion, and we can see that happening as well.
    Defeating the US is actually very easy. It's just that Qedafi is a brainless nut job who can't think straight. Of course, that applies to US corporate oil leadership as well, but this is simply one bunch of wimpy idiots (US oil interests) vs. another (Qedafi), and, alas, in this case, the oil interests are the smarter of the two, so they'll likely prevail.
    I don't believe defeating the US will be easy, it will take more time, but defeating Western Europe is pretty much a done deal if we can talk in terms of a 30 years or so. Iyt is not 'all about oil', at least from the Islamists point of view. That might be the biggest red herring of them all.

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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post

    The West has a stockpile of nuclear weapons and missiles which could destroy Afghanistan and the Middle East in a few hours. We all know that. We also know that they are useless, because they will never be used.
    A weapon is only useful if it destroys the intended target w/an amount of collateral damage acceptable to the user.

    For that reason, nukes are useless for the kinds of war the US military likes to wage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What the Islamists will do is win the war politically, just as in the case of Vietnam, and they are better educated in the ways of war then the west is.
    Vietnam was not just a political victory. It was military victory for the Viet Cong, because the Viet Cong forced the US to withdraw; the other side quitting means you win.

    And when the US withdraws from Afghanistan, it will be a military victory for the Taleban.

    For something to be only a political victory for a side, it must entail military defeat for that side coupled with victory in winning large-scale support for one's cause.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    We tend to think that war is all about boots on the ground and planes in the air but that's no longer true at all. It's all about will.
    Actually, in the modern world, it all about strategy. The Taleban doesn't have anywhere near the offense budget of the US, but it's able to hold its own in Afghanistan because its tactics are superior to the those of the US forces, including its attempt to exploit US distaste for long conflicts to force an (eventual) US withdrawal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Who believes in their culture and philosophies more. More and more they will control the language, as Orwell so insightfully knew, and that is a hugely important element. They will also separate the democracies into different camps in the old divide and conquer fashion, and we can see that happening as well.

    I don't believe defeating the US will be easy,
    Forcing the US military to withdraw is actually significantly easier than most people know, and most of the US's past opponents know. Obviously, I can't elaborate on that here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    it will take more time, but defeating Western Europe is pretty much a done deal if we can talk in terms of a 30 years or so. Iyt is not 'all about oil', at least from the Islamists point of view. That might be the biggest red herring of them all.

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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    A weapon is only useful if it destroys the intended target w/an amount of collateral damage acceptable to the user.
    For that reason, nukes are useless for the kinds of war the US military likes to wage.
    They were used to great effect in Japan with the war ending very quickly soon after. Knowing they will never be used will certainly embolden enemies, and will force you to fight their fight. That's just what's happening now. No one else but the democracies worries about "collateral damage" in a war, which is why we are always at a disadvantage.

    Vietnam was not just a political victory. It was military victory for the Viet Cong, because the Viet Cong forced the US to withdraw; the other side quitting means you win.
    No, the US military could easily have defeated the Vietcong.
    And when the US withdraws from Afghanistan, it will be a military victory for the Taleban.
    Keep in mind it is not just the US fighting in Afghanistan, though that's the way anti American propaganda works. There are several countries involved, including my own. It will be a political self defeat by the West when we leave, and will just be a continuation of what's gone before.
    For something to be only a political victory for a side, it must entail military defeat for that side coupled with victory in winning large-scale support for one's cause.
    There are military defeats and political defeats. Give the military carte blanche and we'll see how long the Taleban, Gadaffi, or any of these third world dictatorships stand up. They would be gone in weeks. But the democracies are weak and without any political cohesion or determination.
    Actually, in the modern world, it all about strategy. The Taleban doesn't have anywhere near the offense budget of the US, but it's able to hold its own in Afghanistan because its tactics are superior to the those of the US forces, including its attempt to exploit US distaste for long conflicts to force an (eventual) US withdrawal.
    Sure. That's why it is not all military. It's about will and politics.

    Forcing the US military to withdraw is actually significantly easier than most people know, and most of the US's past opponents know. Obviously, I can't elaborate on that here.
    I agree. The US is the strongest democracy while the rest are comparative wimps, filled with self doubts and no stomach for war. Plus they are as anti American as the Taliban and the Muslim Brotherhood. The US will eventually crumble also as soon as there are any body bags arriving home and the accent will be placed on "Exit Strategy", a recent term devised to disguise defeat as victory. I think it's quite clear where the future lies. The only saving grace for the American people is their Second Amendment.

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    Re: U.S. Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Hit Targets in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    The West is militarily weak--if it wasn't, it would've made short work of the Third World fighting force known as the Taleban. The only "strength" the US military has are its high tech weapons, which are practically worthless in asymmetric warfare. If Qedafi wages it effectively, he'll prevail. But he's dumb, so he won't.

    Defeating the US is actually very easy. It's just that Qedafi is a brainless nut job who can't think straight. Of course, that applies to US corporate oil leadership as well, but this is simply one bunch of wimpy idiots (US oil interests) vs. another (Qedafi), and, alas, in this case, the oil interests are the smarter of the two, so they'll likely prevail.
    I've read some silly posts but this was remarkable.

    If you think the West is weak and can be easily defeated you really need to pay more attention to world events. Especially if you plan to make your opinions public.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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