Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 90

Thread: Liberty Dollar creator convicted in federal court

  1. #51
    Bohemian Revolutionary
    Demon of Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    03-07-17 @ 12:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,095

    Re: Liberty Dollar creator convicted in federal court

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    IMO, although the rhetoric describing Mr. von NotHaus's minting of "currency" as "a unique form of domestic terrorism," goes too far, that does not change the reality that he was engaging in illegal activity. Previously, he deceptively advertised his "currency" as "real money." His website explicitly attempted to raise doubts about U.S. currency, which is legal tender. He had no authorization from Congress to mint money. Due to the confusion Mr. von NotHaus attempted to create in passing off his "currency" as "money," the U.S. mint had to issue a detailed statement informing people that the NotHaus "money" had no legal basis.

    Had he minted strictly commemorative coins, there would have been no legal issues. Instead, Mr. von NotHaus went well beyond that. I am not surprised that he was convicted, as the legal case against him was quite clear-cut. Furthermore, I fully expect that the conviction will be upheld should he appeal it.
    The U.S. Mint's action was just part of a propaganda campaign to suppress a dissenting action. What he was doing was perfectly legal and there was no claim that the Liberty Dollars constituted legal tender. The term "real money" is just making the point that it is based on something real meaning precious metals.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

  2. #52
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:04 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,255

    Re: Liberty Dollar creator convicted in federal court

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    That's ridiculous. Let's pay for everything in Frequent Flyer Miles.

    We'd all better hope that the US Dollar never loses it's reserve currency status. If that should ever happen, well, let's just say stock up on MRE's.
    Why, are all the other countries whose currency is not reserve, eating MRE's?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  3. #53
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:29 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,431

    Re: Liberty Dollar creator convicted in federal court

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Why, are all the other countries whose currency is not reserve, eating MRE's?
    We are not lucky enough to eat MRE`s we eat pig slop


    What I think Maggie is refering to is


    Should conditions reach the point at which the USD no longer represents the reserve currency it would indicate that inflation in the US is going to be extremely high and overall economic conditions in the US would be very difficult
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

  4. #54
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:04 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,255

    Re: Liberty Dollar creator convicted in federal court

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    We are not lucky enough to eat MRE`s we eat pig slop


    What I think Maggie is refering to is


    Should conditions reach the point at which the USD no longer represents the reserve currency it would indicate that inflation in the US is going to be extremely high and overall economic conditions in the US would be very difficult
    So what about all the inflation in China?

    Rising inflation may force China to let currency appreciate - Los Angeles Times
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  5. #55
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:29 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,431

    Re: Liberty Dollar creator convicted in federal court

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    China`s inflation is somewhat different then the inflation the US would be seeing (different causes)

    The US is having a currency devaluation issue (QE1-2) and more then that most likely when foreign governments and insitutions feel the USD no longer represents a good store of value they will dump it. When that dumping occurs, prices for US assets, will go through the roof as trillions of USD will be returned to the US economy rather then being out in the world economy
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

  6. #56
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Liberty Dollar creator convicted in federal court

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    He doesn't need their authorization. As long as none of the businesses that accepted this as currency were deceived, I see no indication they were, his actions were completely within the bounds of the law. Look at the charges for which he was convicted. It was based on the claim that he was creating money that looks similar to government-issued currency. Specifically their claims were about the coins since the notes were clearly nothing like U.S. dollars. Their claims were ridiculous since no U.S. coin has a phone number or website on it, nor do they say "Liberty Dollar" on the back, but apparently they managed to hoodwink a jury.
    Making custom coin art and selling the coins as art it is not the same as using coins as money, and wouldn't have landed him in jail. He tried to make his own money. He needs Congressional authorization to make money. If he didn't, he wouldn't be in jail. If you make your own currency and try to use it as currency, even if both sides of the counter agree, you're committing a felony.

  7. #57
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    11-28-17 @ 04:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    11,690

    Re: Liberty Dollar creator convicted in federal court

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    The U.S. Mint's action was just part of a propaganda campaign to suppress a dissenting action. What he was doing was perfectly legal and there was no claim that the Liberty Dollars constituted legal tender. The term "real money" is just making the point that it is based on something real meaning precious metals.
    This was a criminal action, not a "propaganda campaign." Also, the context you are providing with respect to his bogus claim of "real money," is not what his website was advertising. As the website has been pulled by court order, I can only refer back to a message I posted in November 2007 at DP, which contained the exact quote. In that message, I noted:

    ...his organization's website advertises, "REAL Money Is Inflation Proof: Your Liberty Dollar Solution." Furthermore, the website claims, "Most people think prices have gone up, but in reality: it is the value of the US dollar that has actually gone down. Luckily, now there is a simple and profitable solution to the coming inflation - good old-fashioned, REAL money as the Founders intended... Now you can profit from the coming inflation with the inflation proof REAL money - the 100% gold and silver Liberty Dollar."

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/archiv...tml#post685477

    Without doubt, Mr. von NotHaus was explicitly claiming that the U.S. dollar was not "real money," because in his advertising "real money" did not lose value to inflation. At the same time, he was claiming that his barter currency was "real money." No matter how one slices it, that was a direct attack on the legal tender nature of the U.S. dollar. Hence, I'm not surprised he was convicted and I expect his conviction will be upheld should he appeal.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 03-20-11 at 11:57 PM.

  8. #58
    Bohemian Revolutionary
    Demon of Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    03-07-17 @ 12:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,095

    Re: Liberty Dollar creator convicted in federal court

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Making custom coin art and selling the coins as art it is not the same as using coins as money, and wouldn't have landed him in jail. He tried to make his own money. He needs Congressional authorization to make money. If he didn't, he wouldn't be in jail. If you make your own currency and try to use it as currency, even if both sides of the counter agree, you're committing a felony.
    The key here is he was not claiming or intending for it to be used as legal tender.

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    This was a criminal action, not a "propaganda campaign."
    Well, I wouldn't go so far as to accuse the U.S. Mint of engaging in criminal action.

    Also, the context you are providing with respect to his bogus claim of "real money," is not what his website was advertising. As the website has been pulled by court order, I can only refer back to a message I posted in November 2007 at DP, which contained the exact quote. In that message, I noted:

    ...his organization's website advertises, "REAL Money Is Inflation Proof: Your Liberty Dollar Solution." Furthermore, the website claims, "Most people think prices have gone up, but in reality: it is the value of the US dollar that has actually gone down. Luckily, now there is a simple and profitable solution to the coming inflation - good old-fashioned, REAL money as the Founders intended... Now you can profit from the coming inflation with the inflation proof REAL money - the 100% gold and silver Liberty Dollar."

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/archiv...tml#post685477

    Without doubt, Mr. von NotHaus was explicitly claiming that the U.S. dollar was not "real money," because in his advertising "real money" did not lose value to inflation. At the same time, he was claiming that his barter currency was "real money." No matter how one slices it, that was a direct attack on the legal tender nature of the U.S. dollar. Hence, I'm not surprised he was convicted and I expect his conviction will be upheld should he appeal.
    Sorry, but what you quote does not in any way suggest his actions were criminal. Of course, there is plenty you have left out. For instance, their brochure right on the front in big print said it was a Private Voluntary Barter Currency and it clarifies in the brochure that it is not legal tender.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

  9. #59
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Liberty Dollar creator convicted in federal court

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    The key here is he was not claiming or intending for it to be used as legal tender.
    Hence his crime.

    If it were legal tender then it would be, well, legal.

    He was attempting to establish a fiat currency.

  10. #60
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    11-28-17 @ 04:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    11,690

    Re: Liberty Dollar creator convicted in federal court

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Sorry, but what you quote does not in any way suggest his actions were criminal. Of course, there is plenty you have left out. For instance, their brochure right on the front in big print said it was a Private Voluntary Barter Currency and it clarifies in the brochure that it is not legal tender.
    It most definitely does. Only Congress can authorize the minting of money. To claim that his barter currency was "money" put him in violation of the law. Furthermore, to assert that his barter currency was "real money" for some supposed attribute that the U.S. dollar lacked, was an attack on the legal tender currency. Of course, the court reviewed far more information than was available on his website. That a jury found him guilty after less than two hours of deliberation indicates that the jury that convicted him also found the case to be quite clear-cut, as I believe it is. IMO, given the lack of ambiguity concerning the facts of the case, I expect that any appeals on his part will be unsuccessful.

Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •