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Thread: French war planes hit four Libyan tanks-Jazeera

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    Re: French war planes hit four Libyan tanks-Jazeera

    Very, very interesting.

    There was a crowd of Libyan protestors in a public square near my house. They had no only Libyan rebel flags, but quite a few French flags as well.

    Very interesting.

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    Re: French war planes hit four Libyan tanks-Jazeera

    I'm still kind of confused as to how attacks against ground targets, such as armored vehicles (as opposed to air defenses) are sanctioned or justified under the enforcement of a no-fly zone.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: French war planes hit four Libyan tanks-Jazeera

    I don't know details and what is going on there but it is the frist time when I have some esteem for a position of France. Cadaffi is not a true comminist, I think, and he hasn't an exlusive right to bomb other people. Why other countries cannot help the opposition?

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    Re: French war planes hit four Libyan tanks-Jazeera

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm still kind of confused as to how attacks against ground targets, such as armored vehicles (as opposed to air defenses) are sanctioned or justified under the enforcement of a no-fly zone.
    The resolution allows use of "all means necessary" to protect civilians from Gaddafi. That means taking out tanks and artillery being used against the rebels, and driving them back out of range (otherwise destroying them)
    Don't work out, work in.

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    Re: French war planes hit four Libyan tanks-Jazeera

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The resolution allows use of "all means necessary" to protect civilians from Gaddafi. That means taking out tanks and artillery being used against the rebels, and driving them back out of range (otherwise destroying them)
    I see, do you have a citation for that quote?
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: French war planes hit four Libyan tanks-Jazeera

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    UN Resolution 1973 permits the use of all means available to stop Libyan government violence against civilians. It is not limited to enforcing a no-fly zone. It also stipulates that the Libyan government cannot interfere with humanitarian endeavors such as truck convoys and transport aircraft.
    That's fine, however "campaign" has a specific connotation to it, so that's simply a mischaracterization then. Here's the text from Resolution 1973 specifically:

    Quote Originally Posted by Resolution 1973
    Authorizes Member States that have notified the Secretary-General, acting nationally or through regional organizations or arrangements, and acting in cooperation with the Secretary-General, to take all necessary measures, notwithstanding paragraph 9 of resolution 1970 (2011), to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, including Benghazi, while excluding a foreign occupation force of any form on any part of Libyan territory, and requests the Member States concerned to inform the Secretary-General immediately of the measures they take pursuant to the authorization conferred by this paragraph which shall be immediately reported to the Security Council;
    No "campaign" therefore is authorized.

    Security Council Approves ‘No-Fly Zone’ over Libya, Authorizing ‘All Necessary Measures’ to Protect Civilians, by Vote of 10 in Favour with 5 Abstentions
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: French war planes hit four Libyan tanks-Jazeera

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Very, very interesting.

    There was a crowd of Libyan protestors in a public square near my house. They had no only Libyan rebel flags, but quite a few French flags as well.

    Very interesting.
    They were probably Gaddafi supporters thanking the French now that the weaponary they supplied them has come in useful. Also, do you live nextdoor to the Canadian houses of parliament or something?
    Last edited by Red_Dave; 03-19-11 at 06:06 PM.

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    Re: French war planes hit four Libyan tanks-Jazeera

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    I can't believe the French are leading the way when it should have been the US, but we have weakling sissy when what we need is a leader with guts.

    I love the threats Obama made. "We won't use our troops or air power but you better do what we say."

    What an amateur idiot. Doesn't he know you never telegraph your punches. Eve if you are not going to do something you want the enemy not knowing what might come next.

    What a Maroon.

    I salute the French. Rare for me.
    The French have a vested interest in a stable Libya. They are very partnered up on various things most crucially, oil.

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    Re: French war planes hit four Libyan tanks-Jazeera

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Very, very interesting.

    There was a crowd of Libyan protestors in a public square near my house. They had no only Libyan rebel flags, but quite a few French flags as well.

    Very interesting.

    Near your house in A Tense Situation? Sendai? Afghanistan? Pawkistawn? Detroit?

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    Re: French war planes hit four Libyan tanks-Jazeera

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    My understanding is those dramatic pictures and video of the downing of the Libyan jet were of a rebel jet, not a loyalist one, being shot down by the rebels.

    (17.38) Libya Live: UN Security Council approves no-fly zone - Telegraph
    The Rebs have aircraft? If so, this is going to get dicey.

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