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Thread: Obama Warns Libya on Allied Action

  1. #61
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    Re: Obama Warns Libya on Allied Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We need to be working with the Arab states and NATO for democratic change in the Middle East, it has been bankrupting us and just creating more terrorists with our trying to go it alone.
    I absolutely agree that others need to share in the responsibility. We did not spend an entire Cold War against the Soviets with Europe on the bench only so they could emegrge lazy and useless (as they proved in the Gulf War, Somalia, Bosnia, Kososov, Iraq, and Afghanistan). But Arab states? Which ones? The ones that use us as a scapegoat for their oppressions, which in turn create terrorists? And we were never going to be able to do all that this region requires from our bank accounts alone. But let's not pretend that our banking systems and house market needed the wars to create the recession. Civilians screwed up your little money world..not the military campaigns.

    However, you are absolutely wrong about the creation of more terrorists in the manner in which you imply. The argument alone is evidence that you don't understand this region's problems, which is why you keep missing the mark on what the WOT is. Desperation creates terrorists. Certainly a handful will join because of dead family member who also made a poor life choice, but the vast majority of those that creeped out of the shadows for Iraq were already there and merely waiting for an excuse. With so many easily traveling to Iraq to murder their fellow Muslim and to be slaughtered in prior years, I would submit that the "creation of more terrorists" was always a fool's argument and a theorist's safe prediction.

    With the wreck this region is in, terrorists were being created right at home within their own culture. They needed no help from us. And just what do you think these uprising and screams for democracy is going to do? Push already made terrorists to the brink of desparation? Will you see a temporary rise in violence across the region? And will you be so quick to declare failure because you still lack the vision?


    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    And I have not heard Congress saying they are going to cut off funding for it, which is within their power if they choose to exercise it.
    Sounds like the same garbage you heard in regards to cutting off funding for Iraq, right? Stop putting your faith in politicians and the media. One will always dissapoint as they beg for your vote and the other is only there to entertain you.
    Last edited by MSgt; 03-29-11 at 06:47 PM.

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  2. #62
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    Re: Obama Warns Libya on Allied Action

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    I absolutely agree that others need to share in the responsibility. We did not spend an entire Cold War against the Soviets with Europe on the bench only so they could emegrge lazy and useless (as they proved in the Gulf War, Somalia, Bosnia, Kososov, Iraq, and Afghanistan). But Arab states? Which ones?
    The ones that asked for our help to police their own. This what we want, and this is what we need to happen in the world. We can't afford to be the world's policeman alone, and we can't affort the terrorist creation it has spawned in the past.

    And we were never going to be able to do all that this region requires from our bank accounts alone.
    That's why this approach makes sense in this instance.

    But let's not pretend that our banking systems and house market needed the wars to create the recession. Civilians screwed up your little money world..not the military campaigns.
    The wars and inadequate regulation of Wall Street and the housing market were the biggest increases to our debt.
    However, you are absolutely wrong about the creation of more terrorists in the manner in which you imply. The argument alone is evidence that you don't understand this region's problems, which is why you keep missing the mark on what the WOT is. Desperation creates terrorists. Certainly a handful will join because of dead family member who also made a poor life choice, but the vast majority of those that creeped out of the shadows for Iraq were already there and merely waiting for an excuse. With so many easily traveling to Iraq to murder their fellow Muslim and to be slaughtered in prior years, I would submit that the "creation of more terrorists" was always a fool's argument and a theorist's safe prediction. With the wreck this region is in, terrorists were being created right at home within their own culture. They needed no help from us.
    Thanks for your opinion. I think I will go with the Rand Report to the military that said our "war on terror" created more terrorists than there were before.

    And just what do you think these uprising and screams for democracy is going to do?
    Get rid of tyrants that abused their citizen's human rights. What they replace them with is entirely up to them. That is what a democratic process is supposed to look like as opposed to the "democracy" in Iraq forced at the end of a gun.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #63
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    Re: Obama Warns Libya on Allied Action

    Now that Obama has handed operational control over to NATO, he needs to butt out and shut up.

  4. #64
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    Re: Obama Warns Libya on Allied Action

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    But...the next administration didn't raise taxes...did it?
    No, it continued the same policy of borrow and spend, and kept putting the costs of the war on the collective MasterCard. Sooner or later, the issue will have to be addressed, but no one wants to be the one to do it.

    If the wars in Iraq, Afganistan, and Libya are worth fighting, are they worth paying for? How about a dedicated tax increase to pay for it as we go along? If the voters are on board with the wars, they should be on board with paying for them too, don't you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    With Obama leading the same charge into the same decrepit world Bush did, perhaps it's time some of you recognize that the world is offering us one hand to deal with and no amount of liberal whining or utopian dreams of "change" is going to change that hand.
    So, since the Obama administration kept on doing the same thing that teh Bush Administration did, there is no other way?


    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    I always loved this kind of twisted and confusing criticism. Criticizing the idiot civilians in Washington for what they did with Iraq as if their plan was the only way, makes sense to you? You hate them, yet give them every credit for their wisdom as if Iraq's events were set in concrete? Perhaps like the rest of your critical ilk you should start recognizing what this region is themeing around right now. One should wonder if a 9/11 would have even happened if we had rid this region of their dictators and forced social changes through certain governments (Saudi Arabia) way back in 1991.

    Saudi Arabia? Their dictators are pro US, but not their population. Do you seriously think we should have attempted a nation building and democratization project there 20 years ago? What do you think the outcome of that might have been?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    So far, you Bush whiners have pretty much resorted to simple statements that have far outlived their expiration dates. With the entire region crying out for democracy and freedom from their dictators, you are all left dumbfounded and quiet, aren't you? Something about democracy never being achievable by Arabs ring a bell? Something about we can't force democracy on them? How near sighted and shallow the lot of you were.
    Democracy can't be imposed from the outside. If we learn nothing else, let's hope we learn that this time around.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    The end goal is to reduce this region's radicalism to a managable level. But you still thinkIraq was about Iraq, huh? And that Afganistan was about Afghanistan? And that Libya is just about Libya? Is Egypt just about Egypt too? With the whole Arab world following suit one after another, I would say that missing the boat is an over statement for your kind of critic.
    Gosh, Iraq was about Iraq, Libya is about Libya, Afganistan is about Afganistan, who would have thought that? I guess maybe Saudi Arabia is about Saudi Arabia, and perhaps France is about France as well.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  5. #65
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