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Thread: Judge issues temporary order barring public union law's implementation

  1. #181
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    Re: Judge issues temporary order barring public union law's implementation

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you forced to join a union if your job demands it? I remember hearing arguments by democratic spokesmouths that if people had the right to enter a union or not, that it would erode the union. If there's no choice, then I would imagine some could deem it wrong.
    There are jobs which part of the agreement to taking the job is to join the union associated with the job. While there are certainly arguments about whether or not that could be true (functionally, what the democratic spokesmen had said is correct), there is always choice. This is something in the contract you sign when you agree to take the job and exchange your labor for other compensation. It's not like this is something which is sprung on people after they're in the job; it's all up front and in the contract itself. People having the right to contract can agree to the stipulations and accept the contract or disagree with the stipulations and reject the contract.
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    Re: Judge issues temporary order barring public union law's implementation

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Haymarket, that could possibly be because its a strawman and you're asking for something few if anyone is actually suggesting. Could you point out who is specifically stating he campaigned specifically about Unions?

    I have seen people said he campaigned on fiscal responsability, and that this ties in with it because he's attempting to eliminating the thing that helped to contribute to the financial issue in the first place. If you catch a thief that broke into your house and took your stuff, sure you want your stuff back...you also want to change the locks and update the code on yoru security system so that he can't just come in and do it all over again even if he promises he wouldn't do that.

    Getting the financial items rolled back with regards to the teacher unions is fiscally responsible on his part. Attempting to remove the tool that would allow them to return the state into a fiscal crisis in short order is also arguably a fiscal issue.
    NO. Its simple and pure. Walker never campaigned on what he ended up doing once in office. He is a right wing stealth candidate who never could have gotten elected if his true colors had been flown.
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    Re: Judge issues temporary order barring public union law's implementation

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    NO. Its simple and pure. Walker never campaigned on what he ended up doing once in office. He is a right wing stealth candidate who never could have gotten elected if his true colors had been flown.
    He campaigned on fixing the financial issues of the state.

    He believes the unions plans to be a financial burden on the state, and seeks to not simply cure the symptoms but actually address the root problem.

    The issue is not him doing something other than he campaigned on, its people being upset about HOW he's doing what he campaigned on.

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    Re: Judge issues temporary order barring public union law's implementation

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    WI statutes have nothing to do with it. It's all about respect and honesty. WI is a strong union state. Always has been. Some say it's the birthplace of unions. If Walker had been upfront about his plans regarding union bargaining rights, he would not have won election. He is deceitful. WI has figured that out and they're not happy about it. Look at a poll sometime.

    So, again, do you have a copy of a Walker campaign ad or speech where he told voters that he planned on ending collective bargaining for public sector unions? I'll wait while you research it.
    Wonders what la la land you live in, since when do politicians do anything but tell the people what they want to hear, I wonder if Obama would have gotten elected, if he had told the public.. . I'm going to pass health care, by passing a bill that no one gets to read .. Or that when he said that the troops would be brought home immediately, that he really meant he was going to do a surge in Afghanistan, and extend that war until 2014 or longer ??

    I guess you feel that Obama is all about respect and honesty.

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    Re: Judge issues temporary order barring public union law's implementation

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Lincoln never said corporations of the people by the people and for the people. Comparing a government partially intervening in a corporation with Big Government throwing out the elected local government of a city or town is absurd and a rather pathetic and lame attempt to justify the actions of somebody just because they happen to worship before the same altar as you do.

    As Robert DeNiro said in THE DEERHUNTER

    [
    -chuckles- and your comment on this just goes to show what a political hack you really are, When you stand up and cheer for the government going where it has no business going, just because it happens to agree with your liberal brain, then I don't see where you should be shocked when government uses that same mentality when it goes against your interests.

    I see very little difference between the two laws, in the president's law, he is allowed to take over any big business based on nothing but his and the treasure secretaries opinion, with “no” needed evidence to back up what he is doing. Why? For the good of nation?
    In the Michigan case, the governor can do much the same thing, He like the president is claiming it's for the good of the state.

    Now either you are for government power and takeover or you are not. Apparently your hypocritical self, it's okay in one case because you happen to agree with it, and in the other it's not.

    Personally I happen to disagree with both, government intervention where it does not belong is wrong. Now if you happen to disagree with that, thats fine, that is your right as an American citizen, but once you give the government the right to go where it shouldn't, then don't play the hypocritical b*t*h and be whining when that power that “you” gave them is used in a way you don't approve of.

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    Re: Judge issues temporary order barring public union law's implementation

    You really need to go back and take eight grade civics again.

    A President of the USA is an officer of the Federal Government.
    A Governor is an officer of a State Government.
    They are two very different things and their powers and authority can vary greatly.

    There is no such thing as your strawman "government" taking action. There is a very specific level of government and very specfics officers at that level of government. And the powers and duties they have are different and unique.

    I did not give your mythical monster... "the government"... the power to do anything.
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    Re: Judge issues temporary order barring public union law's implementation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    There are jobs which part of the agreement to taking the job is to join the union associated with the job. While there are certainly arguments about whether or not that could be true (functionally, what the democratic spokesmen had said is correct), there is always choice. This is something in the contract you sign when you agree to take the job and exchange your labor for other compensation. It's not like this is something which is sprung on people after they're in the job; it's all up front and in the contract itself. People having the right to contract can agree to the stipulations and accept the contract or disagree with the stipulations and reject the contract.
    Again I can nearly agree with you, when you are talking private unions concerning a single shop, I would fully agree with you.

    But in this case you are talking about an entire state, if someone born and raised in Wisconsin, desires to be a teacher, and not belong to a union, yes they have the choice to move out of state. But that is asking a lot of someone to leave their family, their community, to follow their dream of being a teacher, to me that is a hell of a price to pay.

  8. #188
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    Re: Judge issues temporary order barring public union law's implementation

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You really need to go back and take eight grade civics again.

    A President of the USA is an officer of the Federal Government.
    A Governor is an officer of a State Government.
    They are two very different things and their powers and authority can vary greatly.

    There is no such thing as your strawman "government" taking action. There is a very specific level of government and very specfics officers at that level of government. And the powers and duties they have are different and unique.

    I did not give your mythical monster... "the government"... the power to do anything.
    Laughs, I know the difference between a governor and a president. However they are both elected official.

    It's not my problem that you fail to see the parallels in what they are doing, and you can either agree or disagree with what is being done, as stated, I have no problem either way, but to agree with one, and not the other in pure hackery.

    You might not like being told that, but the truth is often painful.

  9. #189
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    Re: Judge issues temporary order barring public union law's implementation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I told you. Unions are private entities which are created in order to increase the collective bargaining power of the worker so that they can better argue for contractual compensation for their labor than they otherwise could. There's not a government agency for that.

    My apologies. I didn't see it....My fault. In any case you are correct in the context that the only real concern that Unions function as today is driving cost to businesses with Unions in them through compensation bargaining. Now, it is my understanding that in the case of Public sector Unions, which I know is different than unions in general as far as WI goes Walker has never gone after the collective bargaining for salaries. However, a reasonable step in these times is doing away with that part of benefits packages. Business did it long ago by switching to 401K's and requiring employees to participate in the cost of the health plan they offered. So unless this is just about a NIMBY type of attitude in the case of the WI deal, or worse yet, my opinion pure greed, then Walker is absolutely right in his case.

    On Business unions, as I said before some need them, some don't. But to back Unions because you think that it is all about a myriad of things other than pay and benefits today is just not credible in my view.

    There's health codes, safety regulations, and a minimum wage; but that all sets lower bounds on things which are standard. Unions are for the actual worker in the worker's situation with a specific company.
    Well, wait. Those arguing ( and I am not saying you here ) for Unionization as a "right" Use these very things to divert from the real goal of pay packages. For example, in the last 20 years, how many strikes resulted over health codes, or safety? As opposed to how many occurred directly tied to compensation?


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    Re: Judge issues temporary order barring public union law's implementation

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You really need to go back and take eight grade civics again.

    A President of the USA is an officer of the Federal Government.
    A Governor is an officer of a State Government.
    They are two very different things and their powers and authority can vary greatly.
    Please allow me to ask, in your opinion, do the states derive their power from the Federal Government, or is it the other way around, the Federal Government deriving its power from the consent of the states?

    There is no such thing as your strawman "government" taking action. There is a very specific level of government and very specfics officers at that level of government. And the powers and duties they have are different and unique.
    Could you explain in detail please?

    I did not give your mythical monster... "the government"... the power to do anything.
    If you are active in the process, ie everything from touching the screen at your local voting place, to actively working, and or contributing to a campaign then yes.....you do.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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