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Thread: White House wants new copyright law crackdown

  1. #81
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    Re: White House wants new copyright law crackdown

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    But the profits of his business (his art) go to his estate. Why do you keep trying to separate art and business?
    Except copyright law was never meant to perpetually fund anybody's estate, and as I have mentioned before, was certainly not meant to last as long as it does now.
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    Re: White House wants new copyright law crackdown

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    But the profits of his business (his art) go to his estate. Why do you keep trying to separate art and business?
    Because societal advancement is more important than perpetual ownership on an idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    You can certainly invent your own operating system. Nobody owns the rights to 0s and 1s.

    But you can't take something someone else invented and change a few things then sell it as your own.
    That's how virtually everything sold today was invented, all improvements on the idea's of other people.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    You can modify your car engine. But you can't duplicate that engine and sell it as your own without permission of the original inventor.
    You can, once the patent runs out, which compared to copyright is minuscule.


    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Really, so there is only one creator of movies in the world.

    One single creator of music and software.

    Yes, MS owns and controls the rights to Windows.

    But you can still write your own operation system and sell it.
    That's going around your elbow to get to your ass.
    Practically everything sold today is an improvement of older ideas.


    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    You continue to misuse the term 'monopoly'.

    Patents and copyrights are not monopolies. I own copyrighted material. My brother-in-law owes over 20 software patents. We hardly control a monopoly.
    That is exactly what it is, a monopoly.

    He has monopoly control over the use of that software, he can dictate who can and cannot use it.


    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    A movie is not a public park.

    Software created for profit is a business commodity.

    If Metallica wants to perform a free concert, that's their choice. But they have the right to charge for people to record that concert and use the recording for profit.
    All of those things are based on idea's, which are held in commons.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Really, so taking away the profit motive will help?
    No taking away monopoly control will help.
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    Re: White House wants new copyright law crackdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Doesn't make any difference, perception of reality trumps what you want it to be.
    Perception of reality? I'm sorry if you don't understand what it is you're paying for when it's explained to you in plain English.

    That's not true, again with your sweeping generalizations and veiled personal attacks.
    You JUST proved it. You like every other single advocate of lax copyright laws I've ever debated has not a single clue what it is they're talking about. Why is it that you don't have lawyers suing media corporations for their greedy monopolistic ways? I find it interesting that you, a Libertarian of all people would even be arguing against copyright laws. I guess since the demographics are about the same for both groups then it really shouldn't come as a big surprise.

    Few would pay that much per show, which is telling about the real value of these shows.
    Oh I get it, you get to determine the real value of a show now. Here, the reason I don't use an iPhone is because I don't believe it's worth $500. Does that mean the real value of an iPhone is not in the hundreds of dollars? Sorry, you don't get to determine the value of something and then use it as you wish.

    Your IP isn't worth as much as you think it is.
    No. It's worth whatever I think it is. If you don't think it's worth that much, don't buy it.

    You're only using government to prop up your monopoly, which is faltering as technology undoes your attempt to control economics.
    No. I'm using the government to protect my property. If you don't like it, stop trying to use it.
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    Re: White House wants new copyright law crackdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Perception of reality? I'm sorry if you don't understand what it is you're paying for when it's explained to you in plain English.
    People perceive that they are buying these shows and resort to IP infringement to get their full value, regardless of whatever contract arrangement the IP maker and distributor say.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You JUST proved it. You like every other single advocate of lax copyright laws I've ever debated has not a single clue what it is they're talking about. Why is it that you don't have lawyers suing media corporations for their greedy monopolistic ways? I find it interesting that you, a Libertarian of all people would even be arguing against copyright laws. I guess since the demographics are about the same for both groups then it really shouldn't come as a big surprise.
    Just because the law disagrees with me doesn't me it isn't true.
    You're just making an appeal to authority now.

    Free market > monopoly

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Oh I get it, you get to determine the real value of a show now. Here, the reason I don't use an iPhone is because I don't believe it's worth $500. Does that mean the real value of an iPhone is not in the hundreds of dollars? Sorry, you don't get to determine the value of something and then use it as you wish.
    Yes I do.
    If the Iphone is not worth $500 to you, it's not worth $500.
    Price is based on what individuals are willing to pay, not what you dictate it should be.

    As to your very last statement, the reality is that I do get to determine the value and use it as I wish, at least as far as IP is concerned.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    No. It's worth whatever I think it is. If you don't think it's worth that much, don't buy it.
    To you individually yes, to everyone else no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    No. I'm using the government to protect my property. If you don't like it, stop trying to use it.
    It's not your property as you have use the ideas of others to develop it.
    To the point that ideas are held in commons and your work is just an improvement of the work of other people, not solely yours.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: White House wants new copyright law crackdown

    Moderator's Warning:
    White House wants new copyright law crackdownLet's tone it down some please.
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    Re: White House wants new copyright law crackdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post

    You JUST proved it.
    Like hell he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You like every other single advocate of lax copyright laws I've ever debated has not a single clue what it is they're talking about.
    You just PROVED HIS point, unless you can actually PROVE it - nut just randoml;y cherry picking quotes - maybe providing evidence from outside sources, or explaining why you chose the quotes you did and why they are wrong in your opinion?


    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Why is it that you don't have lawyers suing media corporations for their greedy monopolistic ways?
    In cases where it is justified, the problem is the corporations they go after hold all the cards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I find it interesting that you, a Libertarian of all people would even be arguing against copyright laws.
    From what I understood, it seemed like he was advocating for LAX copyrights, which is not the same at all really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I guess since the demographics are about the same for both groups then it really shouldn't come as a big surprise.
    Another attempt at smearing people on baseless grounds, this is getting REALLY boring.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    No. It's worth whatever I think it is.
    Actually, it is worth [a balance between] both what you think, and what the customers, or consumers-to-be think - supply and demand.
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    Re: White House wants new copyright law crackdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Perception of reality? I'm sorry if you don't understand what it is you're paying for when it's explained to you in plain English.



    You JUST proved it. You like every other single advocate of lax copyright laws I've ever debated has not a single clue what it is they're talking about. Why is it that you don't have lawyers suing media corporations for their greedy monopolistic ways? I find it interesting that you, a Libertarian of all people would even be arguing against copyright laws. I guess since the demographics are about the same for both groups then it really shouldn't come as a big surprise.



    Oh I get it, you get to determine the real value of a show now. Here, the reason I don't use an iPhone is because I don't believe it's worth $500. Does that mean the real value of an iPhone is not in the hundreds of dollars? Sorry, you don't get to determine the value of something and then use it as you wish.



    No. It's worth whatever I think it is. If you don't think it's worth that much, don't buy it.



    No. I'm using the government to protect my property. If you don't like it, stop trying to use it.
    Harry Guerrilla's arguments would be valid if they concerned non-discretionary goods like access to food, water, shelter....
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    Re: White House wants new copyright law crackdown

    Frankly, I'm not a supporter of intellectual property rights at all, so I don't support this move.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

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    Re: White House wants new copyright law crackdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    People perceive that they are buying these shows and resort to IP infringement to get their full value, regardless of whatever contract arrangement the IP maker and distributor say.
    People 'perceive' that they are buying these shows? You know for somebody who constatly bitches about generalizing statements, that's a pretty ridiculous one. People don't perceive that they're buying anything other than the channel. Networks don't promote shows, they promote channels. Networks don't promote The Sopranos, they promote HBO. They don't promote the Lakers vs Heat, they promote NBA channels. You seem to be the only person who is under the perception that they are buying programs and not access to channels. Is it any coincidence you'd also be an advocate of pirating? Hahaha. I doubt it.
    Just because the law disagrees with me doesn't me it isn't true.
    You're just making an appeal to authority now.

    Free market > monopoly
    What a silly strawman, the reason the law doesn't agree with you is because property rights and property owners don't agree with you.

    Yes I do.
    If the Iphone is not worth $500 to you, it's not worth $500.
    Price is based on what individuals are willing to pay, not what you dictate it should be.
    What a silly statement. Prices are based on the demand. If people want something actual price becomes irrelevant. They don't get to determine what that price will actually be or if they'll pay for it or not.

    As to your very last statement, the reality is that I do get to determine the value and use it as I wish, at least as far as IP is concerned.

    To you individually yes, to everyone else no.

    It's not your property as you have use the ideas of others to develop it.
    To the point that ideas are held in commons and your work is just an improvement of the work of other people, not solely yours.
    As I have stated before, people who advocate pirating are nothing more than people who clearly don't produce anything. You're sitting here playing the same game of semantics about whether or not an 'idea' should be paid for or not. Do you get to determine whether you should pay for a car at a dealership because various people came up with the various ideas behind it? No. You don't even get to determine whether you'll pay for it or not. You're nothing more than an economic leech who is trying to justify being too broke to pay up. If you don't like it that people are selling their creations, don't use them. What's so hard about that? I don't go to a book store and steal books because the person selling them didn't invent the English language. I don't go into a furniture store and steal **** because the people there didn't invent furniture or sitting down. It's a pretty simple concept. Instead of advocating pirating others ideas, why don't you try actually creating something other than ridiculously uninformed posts on copyright laws. But don't just create it, try to make a living out of it. If you can make any money off it, then you'll be vexed at the fact that some snot nosed punk from NYC or Miami is downloading it for free.
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  10. #90
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    Re: White House wants new copyright law crackdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    People 'perceive' that they are buying these shows? You know for somebody who constatly bitches about generalizing statements, that's a pretty ridiculous one. People don't perceive that they're buying anything other than the channel. Networks don't promote shows, they promote channels. Networks don't promote The Sopranos, they promote HBO. They don't promote the Lakers vs Heat, they promote NBA channels. You seem to be the only person who is under the perception that they are buying programs and not access to channels. Is it any coincidence you'd also be an advocate of pirating? Hahaha. I doubt it.
    The actions of IP infringement show that people tend to believe that they are buying the shows and not just the channel.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    What a silly strawman, the reason the law doesn't agree with you is because property rights and property owners don't agree with you.
    It's not your property though.
    You did not originally create all the work in developing your idea's, you most definitely borrowed from others.
    Talk about leech.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    What a silly statement. Prices are based on the demand. If people want something actual price becomes irrelevant. They don't get to determine what that price will actually be or if they'll pay for it or not.
    Price is based on Supply and Demand, for IP the supply is infinite, so it should be free right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    As I have stated before, people who advocate pirating are nothing more than people who clearly don't produce anything. You're sitting here playing the same game of semantics about whether or not an 'idea' should be paid for or not. Do you get to determine whether you should pay for a car at a dealership because various people came up with the various ideas behind it? No. You don't even get to determine whether you'll pay for it or not. You're nothing more than an economic leech who is trying to justify being too broke to pay up. If you don't like it that people are selling their creations, don't use them. What's so hard about that? I don't go to a book store and steal books because the person selling them didn't invent the English language. I don't go into a furniture store and steal **** because the people there didn't invent furniture or sitting down. It's a pretty simple concept. Instead of advocating pirating others ideas, why don't you try actually creating something other than ridiculously uninformed posts on copyright laws. But don't just create it, try to make a living out of it. If you can make any money off it, then you'll be vexed at the fact that some snot nosed punk from NYC or Miami is downloading it for free.
    It takes time and materials to make each physical item, not so much for IP.
    I won't be vexed as that is reality.

    The whole point of the limitations of IP was because IP creators did not do all the work in their creations, they borrow from others.
    You call piracy leeching, yet you "leech" work from others and claim credit for the whole idea.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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