Page 26 of 28 FirstFirst ... 162425262728 LastLast
Results 251 to 260 of 278

Thread: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspires

  1. #251
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    01-26-14 @ 01:29 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    3,216

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    As opposed to what? Your own insulting, and condescending drivel?

    j-mac
    "So you say."

  2. #252
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,115

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    'Books', AKA an Islamophobic website.
    no, books. i'm a fairly large Lewis fan, for example, though of course i've read his critics. though it turns out Japan had to have an earthquake, and so my time is going to be limited so i may have to beg off here; we will see.

    Err, you seem to be extremely ignorant of a relevant history. The only person who has set out on a systematic destruction of the Jewish people is a Christian man named Hitler who said 'by fighting against the Jew, he was doing the Lord's work'.
    and you accuse me of being ignorant of history? Hitler was merely one of a long line of entities that have made that attempt.

    There are more than two divisions of the world in Islam. Dar al Islam and Dar al Harb are just two. You seem to be forgetting Dar al Hudna, Dar al Ahd, Dar al Amn, and Dar al Dawa.
    Hudna and Ahm are recognized as temporary states, and Ahd was a later invention. and as i recall Dawa described the Jihaliya; and thus didn't traditionally apply - until of course Sayyid Qutb brought the notion of Jihaliya back into vogue.

    Islam has no culture
    Islam absolutely has common culture, just as Christianity does. I can walk into a Japanese church (in fact I did today) and instantly share a wealth of commonalities with the worshipers there, despite being from the American south.

    and you have absolutely no idea what the word jurisprudence means, yet alone how to use it. Are you thinking of Arabic culture? Because Arabs account for 15% of all of Islam.
    and in the period under discussion (the rule of the Prophet, the Caliphate, the Abbassids, etc), they accounted for the majority of Islam and certainly the intellectual and ruling class. not that that is really central to the point; as what we are discussing is the religious imposition from this period upon all male muslims to engage in armed conflict at some point in their lives against the infidel.

    Sense... are you incapable of making any? Do you know what literary context means? You and your source author seem to wholly ignorant on why to use LITERARY CONTEXT when reading the CONTEXT of LITERATURE.
    the man listed the relevant sura. if you would like to cite the surrounding verses and demonstrated on how he had taken them out of context, i would love to see it.

    buuuut i'm thinking you won't
    Last edited by cpwill; 03-20-11 at 09:05 AM.

  3. #253
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,115

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    So then tell me why so many Christians use this as their justification for demonizing homosexuals

    Leviticus 18:22

    22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
    easy answer: they don't. the New Testament is also quite clear that homosexual relations goes against Gods' intentions for sexuality.

    Romans 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
    22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
    23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
    24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
    25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
    26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
    27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

  4. #254
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,115

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    How many debates do there have to be before people recognise the logical impossibility of proving a negative
    you won't be, you will instead be demonstrating what the Prophet was talking about. obviously if he discussed the importance of waging jihad against the unbelievers, and he meant to debate them vigorously to show the ignorance of their ways, then there would be some kind of indication of this.

    That particular logical fallacy is known as a straw man. We were discussing Islam and the Qur'an, not Islamism.
    actually you referenced Islamism when you started talking about the "warping" of Islam by terrorist groups. don't be upset because they are simply part of a repeat phenomena.

    The word is unchanging, the interpretations are unceasing.
    the wind is always blowing, the stars are dancing, wise men think deep and the elephant sings at midnight; how in the world does that change the fact that - unlike any of you, he was able to actually source his argument in the Koran, the Word of Allah Himself?

  5. #255
    User
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Last Seen
    03-26-12 @ 09:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    97

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    easy answer: they don't. the New Testament is also quite clear that homosexual relations goes against Gods' intentions for sexuality.

    Romans 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
    22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
    23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
    24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
    25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
    26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
    27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
    Tell me, when your wife menstruates, do you make her sleep in a tent outside?

  6. #256
    Global Moderator
    Bodhidarma approves bigly
    Andalublue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Granada, España
    Last Seen
    11-29-17 @ 01:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    26,111

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    you won't be, you will instead be demonstrating what the Prophet was talking about. obviously if he discussed the importance of waging jihad against the unbelievers, and he meant to debate them vigorously to show the ignorance of their ways, then there would be some kind of indication of this.
    Can I prove that the Prophet was not referring to war with non-believers when 'jihad' is mentioned in the Qur'an? No. Can I prove that there are as many references to 'jihad' with broader meanings than simply that? Yes. You claim, "when the Prophet discussed Jihad he was predominantly talking about warfare?" I'm looking forward to seeing your proof.

    My proof that he was not is here:

    1. Eleven different meanings of the term all with quotations from relevant suras showing that 'war with the unbeliever' is just one of many meanings of 'jihad'.
    #18 - Jihad Explained | Institute of Islamic Information and Education

    2. "Not all war is jihad and not all jihad is war". You can check out the wider explanation of the role of jihad in a great, short tract I downloaded from The Royal Aal Al-byt Institute for Islamic Thought.
    English Publications

    3. "Jihad is a very broad concept that includes theories of just war. But the Koran is very clear that Muslims are only to wage defensive wars," Jeremiah McAuliffe
    Interesting guy, a Muslim convert from Catholicism and very rational thinker and debater. Here's his story...
    Conversion Story of Jeremiah McAuliffe, Jr. (Dec. 97)
    And here's his views on the misuse of the term 'Jihad'...
    'Jihad' misused, misunderstood, scholar says

    actually you referenced Islamism when you started talking about the "warping" of Islam by terrorist groups. don't be upset because they are simply part of a repeat phenomena.
    Yes, I used the word, I did not make it the subject of the current debate. You did that. That's a straw man argument.

    the wind is always blowing, the stars are dancing, wise men think deep and the elephant sings at midnight; how in the world does that change the fact that - unlike any of you, he was able to actually source his argument in the Koran, the Word of Allah Himself?
    You can source an argument for most things using a religious text. What makes an argument valid or invalid is not that you can find a sura, chapter, or verse that ostensibly supports your assertion, but that context, precedent and scholastic enquiry have supported your interpretation of that piece of scripture. Look at the WBC. They have a chapter and verse justification for all their acts of bigotry. That doesn't mean that their interpretation of the scripture is one that holds water for most theologists.
    Last edited by Andalublue; 03-20-11 at 03:01 PM.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  7. #257
    Sage
    scourge99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Wild West
    Last Seen
    01-27-12 @ 02:50 AM
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    6,233

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael418 View Post
    Tell me, when your wife menstruates, do you make her sleep in a tent outside?
    Of course not. Christians pick-and-choose which parts of the Bible they think are requirements and which aren't. Why do you think there are so many different Christian sects?
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  8. #258
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,115

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael418 View Post
    Tell me, when your wife menstruates, do you make her sleep in a tent outside?
    New Testament, Michael. Keep up

  9. #259
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    New Testament, Michael. Keep up
    Don't discard all of the old testement. That one about making the wife sleep in a tent when she's menstruating is one of the most bang on ideas any religion has ever come up with. Far better than disliking homosexuality. It has a practical value, you know?

  10. #260
    Global Moderator
    Bodhidarma approves bigly
    Andalublue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Granada, España
    Last Seen
    11-29-17 @ 01:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    26,111

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    It's funny how many Christians these days are rejecting the Old Testament as 'fulfilled' by the New Testament. Anyone pointing out the brutality and unreason of the earlier book is dismissed because the OT is no longer authorative. This point doesn't seem to have gotten through to those arguing for observance of the ancient commandments. As I recall Jesus stated that the 10 commandments could really be encapsulated in two - love the Lord your God, and love your neighbour as yourself. Of course, Jesus' message was never quite good enough for Pauline orthodoxy, so they added a few more condemnations pulled randomly from the OT.

    What should certainly be borne in mind is that should something be argued that only appears in the OT, the creation myth for example, it should be pointed out that Christianity has rejected the teachings of the OT and thus, so should we all.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

Page 26 of 28 FirstFirst ... 162425262728 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •