Page 24 of 28 FirstFirst ... 142223242526 ... LastLast
Results 231 to 240 of 278

Thread: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspires

  1. #231
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Who gives a .....! Frankly I am bored. Night.


    j-mac
    I'll take that as a "no".

  2. #232
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,148

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Forgive me if I don't take Andrew C. McCarthy (whoever the **** that is) at his word.

    I'm a hard nut (yet respectful to all religions athiest) and my best friend is Muslim...
    Andrew McCarthy was one of the federal governments' lead prosecutors against Islamist terrorists back in the 90's; for example, he put the blind sheikh away. He's sort of what you call "a subject matter expert".

    as for taking him seriously, he cites the relevant sura's and verses (actually he under counts them) and some of the (nowhere near all of the) relevant Hadith. one that I've always found enlightening is Mohammad saying that any male muslim who died without taking part in a Jihad campaign died in a state similar to that of an infidel. mind you, Mohammad also said that he who committed suicide would spend eternity dying in the manner that he had killed himself, so he might disapprove of some of today's tactics even as he encouraged their general thrust. I notice that you fail to provide any support for your position, instead falling back on some kind of "my best friend is a muslim" shibboleth as though pieties counted for logic.

  3. #233
    Global Moderator
    Bodhidarma approves bigly
    Andalublue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Granada, España
    Last Seen
    12-16-17 @ 01:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    26,111

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    one that I've always found enlightening is Mohammad saying that any male muslim who died without taking part in a Jihad campaign died in a state similar to that of an infidel.
    Trouble is, you don't having a flying notion what jihad really means. If you did, you wouldn't pretend that it necessarily means involvement in violence.

    mind you, Mohammad also said that he who committed suicide would spend eternity dying in the manner that he had killed himself, so he might disapprove of some of today's tactics even as he encouraged their general thrust.
    He would definitely have had a problem with suicide bombers. That's not Islam, that's desperation.

    I notice that you fail to provide any support for your position, instead falling back on some kind of "my best friend is a muslim" shibboleth as though pieties counted for logic.
    I'm not seeing any links or sources to back up your interpretation of the Qur'an.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  4. #234
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,148

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    I have one response to this statement.

    "The Road To Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions".
    and what road do bad ones pave? perhaps we should do no good in the world, for fear of unintended consequences.

  5. #235
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,148

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Trouble is, you don't having a flying notion what jihad really means. If you did, you wouldn't pretend that it necessarily means involvement in violence.
    actually i do, the "oh it means internal struggle" is a modernistic adaptation. for Muhammad - and for the vast majority of Islamic Jurisprudence throughout history - it was overwhelmingly used specifically to reference war against the unbeliever; which, ironically, sometimes included believers (apostasy being the most heinous crime in Islam).

    He would definitely have had a problem with suicide bombers. That's not Islam, that's desperation.
    the automatic forgiveness of sins and entrance into paradise for any who dies killing those who don't accept your faith is definitely part of Islam.

    Just like it was for Christianity.

    In the 13th Century.

    Suicide becomes the problem; as Lewis succinctly put it, suicide bombers are betting eternity on a theological fine point (that martyrdom automatically washes away the sin of suicide).

    I'm not seeing any links or sources to back up your interpretation of the Qur'an.
    then you didn't read the post he was responding to

  6. #236
    Global Moderator
    Bodhidarma approves bigly
    Andalublue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Granada, España
    Last Seen
    12-16-17 @ 01:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    26,111

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    actually i do, the "oh it means internal struggle" is a modernistic adaptation. for Muhammad - and for the vast majority of Islamic Jurisprudence throughout history - it was overwhelmingly used specifically to reference war against the unbeliever; which, ironically, sometimes included believers (apostasy being the most heinous crime in Islam).
    Proof? Three authorative sources from Islamic jurisprudence professors should be sufficient back-up for me to take the word of a non-Moslem, non-lawyer, non-academic.

    the automatic forgiveness of sins and entrance into paradise for any who dies killing those who don't accept your faith is definitely part of Islam.

    Just like it was for Christianity.
    As you say, nothing exclusively Islamic about this.

    Suicide becomes the problem; as Lewis succinctly put it, suicide bombers are betting eternity on a theological fine point (that martyrdom automatically washes away the sin of suicide).
    Yes, can't disagree with this. That's why the real culprits are those who can convince the gullible that their warped interpretation of scripture is the true one.


    then you didn't read the post he was responding to
    Oh, you mean an opinion piece by a right-wing ideologue. Someone ought to fill you in on methods of academic enquiry.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  7. #237
    Educator TheBook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Last Seen
    11-28-11 @ 01:35 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    880

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    It's obvious that almost all holy books can be used as tools either for great good or great evil. Otherwise there wouldn't be good/bad Muslims/Chrstians.

    The argument that any religion is "pure evil" is absurd.

    And don't give me that "all Christians know that the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament" bit, otherwise the Ten Commandments and that so often quoted Leviticus verse wouldn't be a part of mainstream Christianity.
    “The more you know, the harder it is to take decisive action. Once you become informed, you start seeing complexities and shades of gray. You realize that nothing is as clear and simple as it first appears. Ultimately, knowledge is paralyzing.” - Bill Watterson
    Who Is Chicago Ted?

  8. #238
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,148

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Proof? Three authorative sources from Islamic jurisprudence professors should be sufficient back-up for me to take the word of a non-Moslem, non-lawyer, non-academic.
    interesting. i'll have to go back to my books. alright; are you willing to accept the same level of proof for your assertion? three authoritative sources from Islamic history declaring that when the Prophet discussed Jihad he was predominantly not talking about warfare?

    As you say, nothing exclusively Islamic about this.
    true; just as there is nothing exclusively Chinese about believing in Dragons. But most of the rest of the world has developed past that stage. Islam, it seems, has yet to do so.

    Yes, can't disagree with this. That's why the real culprits are those who can convince the gullible that their warped interpretation of scripture is the true one.
    not sure it's all that warped. wiping out the Jews? check. the fact that there are only two divisions in the world ; dar al Islam and dar al Haarb? check. placing nonbelievers who are people of the book into a state of dhimmitude and killing the rest? check.

    Islamism is a modern response to the West and the Enlightenment, but it has deep, deep roots in Islamic culture and jurisprudence.

    Oh, you mean an opinion piece by a right-wing ideologue. Someone ought to fill you in on methods of academic enquiry.
    this is what's known as an ad sourcinem attack. the man cited his sources and listed the relevant Sura and Verse. I notice no one else seems very interested in doing the same.

  9. #239
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,148

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    It's obvious that almost all holy books can be used as tools either for great good or great evil. Otherwise there wouldn't be good/bad Muslims/Chrstians.

    The argument that any religion is "pure evil" is absurd.

    And don't give me that "all Christians know that the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament" bit, otherwise the Ten Commandments and that so often quoted Leviticus verse wouldn't be a part of mainstream Christianity.
    in fact the New Testament says specifically and in multiple places that it supercedes the old and that large sections of the Levitical Law are no longer valid.

  10. #240
    Global Moderator
    Bodhidarma approves bigly
    Andalublue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Granada, España
    Last Seen
    12-16-17 @ 01:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    26,111

    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    interesting. i'll have to go back to my books. alright; are you willing to accept the same level of proof for your assertion? three authoritative sources from Islamic history declaring that when the Prophet discussed Jihad he was predominantly not talking about warfare?
    How many debates do there have to be before people recognise the logical impossibility of proving a negative. I couldn't possibly do that even if I wished to, which I probably would wish to. Prove Santa Claus doesn't exist.

    Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    not sure it's all that warped. wiping out the Jews? check. the fact that there are only two divisions in the world ; dar al Islam and dar al Haarb? check. placing nonbelievers who are people of the book into a state of dhimmitude and killing the rest? check.

    Islamism is a modern response to the West and the Enlightenment, but it has deep, deep roots in Islamic culture and jurisprudence.
    That particular logical fallacy is known as a straw man. We were discussing Islam and the Qur'an, not Islamism. You prove nothing by pretending that the point at issue is something that it is not.

    Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    this is what's known as an ad sourcinem attack. the man cited his sources and listed the relevant Sura and Verse. I notice no one else seems very interested in doing the same.
    The word is unchanging, the interpretations are unceasing.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

Page 24 of 28 FirstFirst ... 142223242526 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •