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Thread: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspires

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    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I'm not an atheist. In fact, I am pretty religious, and even I recognize that atheism is not a religion.

    1) Religion is a belief. Religious people can prove that by wheeling out a God that they believe in.

    2) Atheism? Are you really going to say it is a religion by asking them to prove it by wheeling out no God?

    3) Religion has a very small similarity to science in that you must prove that you believe in a God, just as in science, you must prove a theory.

    4) Atheism again? Where's The lack of God they don't believe in?

    5) Just like creationists, some people are claiming that you can prove a negative, and define atheism on that term. It doesn't work.




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    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You are trying to twist what I said.
    Not at all. I simply disagree with you.

    Go back and read it. A lack of belief is not the same thing as a belief.
    Deciding you don't believe is just as much as a decision you make to believe. Adhering to that decision is just as much a religion as one that's God centered.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Trouble is, you haven't really gone on to define religion yourself, so either side would be talking past eachother. Neither the belief or non-belief in a god makes one religious. It's a decision on one issue.
    There is more than one definition of "religion". In the context of atheism, I use it to mean an adhered to belief that God doesn't exist.

    Religion embodies a set of beliefs, a story on how the world got here and what its purpose is, usually with a bunch of rituals to go along with it. Atheists generally accept ignorance on these questions and don't practice common rituals or codes of morality. I don't consider deists religious for that reason also.
    I agree that rites and rituals can be part of a religion and that this definition of religion does not apply to atheists. You say atheists accept ignorance on those questions. So what's the difference between atheism and agnosticism in your mind?
    You may be talking about them both being faith, but since my position is I don't have the evidence to proactively believe in god and am in no way presenting an alternative "answer", it's incorrect to call atheism as such faith. Unless the atheist says there's no chance at all of a god existing.
    That's what atheism is, isn't it? A faith that God does not exist. If you believe He might, isn't that being agnostic?

    No one can prove to you god doesn't exist. The proposition that there is a god is non-falsifiable, since it cannot be clearly defined. The goalposts for god are always moved in such debates, which is why I gave up on them a long time ago.

    I hope your beliefs bring you peace and happiness in your life.
    Thank you, it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    It's not a religion but I do agree with you that atheism does involve a form of faith, because there is no way to know that God doesn't exist. Religious people, and atheist have the same type of mindset IMO, they just believe different things. Agnostics are the ones to claim that we don't know.
    Well, if believer and non believers have the same mindset, but just believe the opposite, that's still a belief based on faith. So what makes it not also a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Starting the debate by openly engaging in the fallacy of demanding negative proof is not a very good idea. Just sayin'.
    I was being (mostly) facetious. Still, I wasn't kidding that I'm often challenged to prove God's existence. Personally, given the amazing thing the earth alone is, much less the entire universe, I have ample evidence of God's existence. I think it takes more faith to believe this all just happened as some sort of happy accident.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    You beat me to it.

    Most atheists I know simply don't see any evidence for the existence of a god. I can ask you if you believe in an invisible pink unicorn. But if you say no that doesn't mean that you "believe" there isn't one.
    That's exactly what it means. I actively believe there isn't an invisible pink unicorn.

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I'm not an atheist. In fact, I am pretty religious, and even I recognize that atheism is not a religion.

    1) Religion is a belief. Religious people can prove that by wheeling out a God that they believe in.

    2) Atheism? Are you really going to say it is a religion by asking them to prove it by wheeling out no God?

    3) Religion has a very small similarity to science in that you must prove that you believe in a God, just as in science, you must prove a theory.

    4) Atheism again? Where's The lack of God they don't believe in?

    5) Just like creationists, some people are claiming that you can prove a negative, and define atheism on that term. It doesn't work.
    Atheism is a belief that there is no God, and since it cannot be definitively proven that there isn't, there is an element of faith in their non-belief. Haven't you run across the atheists (which are not all of them) that not only profess their non-belief but assert that you are wrong or a nut to believe? I have. To me, those are the zealots in the religion that is atheism. I don't really understand what's so troubling about my contention that atheism is a religion. I'm not saying it is a bad thing (although the zealots can be annoying). I am religious. I'm not accusing anybody of anything bad.



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    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post

    Well, if believer and non believers have the same mindset, but just believe the opposite, that's still a belief based on faith. So what makes it not also a religion?
    Because atheism have no doctrine to their beliefs, and the word religion implies a belief in some form of higher power.
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    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Because atheism have no doctrine to their beliefs, and the word religion implies a belief in some form of higher power.
    I agree, that is one definition, but it's not the only one. See bolded part.


    re·li·gion   
    [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
    –noun
    1.
    a set of beliefs concerning the*cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
    2.
    a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
    3.
    the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world*council of religions.
    4.
    the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
    5.
    the practice of religious *beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
    6.
    something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
    7.
    religions, Archaic . religious *rites.
    8.
    Archaic . strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
    —Idiom
    9.
    get religion, Informal .
    a.
    to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
    b.
    to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.
    Origin:
    1150–1200; Middle English religioun *(< Old French religion ) < Latin religiōn- *(stem of religiō ) conscientiousness, piety, equivalent to relig ( āre ) to tie, fasten ( re- re- *+ ligāre *to bind, tie; compare ligament) + -iōn- -ion; compare rely
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion
    Last edited by X Factor; 03-14-11 at 05:27 PM.
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    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Using that version of the word you could call believing the Xbox 360 is better than the PS3 a religion.
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    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Mahr is a jack ass. White noise in the realm of reality. irrelevant.


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    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Using that version of the word you could call believing the Xbox 360 is better than the PS3 a religion.
    To some, I'm sure it is.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


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    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    To some, I'm sure it is.
    PC > both.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    PC > both.
    Mac > PC


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Bill Maher tells Rep. Ellison the Quran is a ‘hate-filled holy book’ that inspire

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Mac > PC


    j-mac
    Can't play most games on a mac unless you install windows, maybe linux.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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