Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play slave

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

CaptainCourtesy said:

I also think that 10 years old is a bit young to manage a lesson like this, but if the students were randomized, the complaining about this is ridiculous. It's like a comedian telling an ethnic joke at a comedy club and a few people becoming offended. Context, people.

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I agree. what I find odd is that just the other day, there were people arguing that kids even younger (6-7) were old enough to manage a lesson on homosexuality, which is at least as difficult a topic. :shrug:

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

WTF? Why the hell is slavery such a touchy subject??? It ended, it's over. None of us were slaves. Some people act like slavery ended yesterday, give me a break!

So the kids were "role playing" slaves and master, and for this the teacher (following school methods) should be fired? :doh

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

CaptainCourtesy said:

I also think that 10 years old is a bit young to manage a lesson like this, but if the students were randomized, the complaining about this is ridiculous. It's like a comedian telling an ethnic joke at a comedy club and a few people becoming offended. Context, people.

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Never under-estimate the value of early brainwashing.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

Blackdog said:

WTF? Why the hell is slavery such a touchy subject??? It ended, it's over. None of us were slaves. Some people act like slavery ended yesterday, give me a break!

So the kids were "role playing" slaves and master, and for this the teacher (following school methods) should be fired? :doh

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Because, we're still ****ed up from slavery. Haven't you heard?

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

Mickey Shane said:

Context is being one of two AA kids in a class about slavery.

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So, what is the number of AA kids that must be in a classroom before slavery can be broached?

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

Whovian said:

We watched that in middle school. It was and is an amazing work, and would be MUCH better than having somethign like this happen. WTF was the teacher thinking?

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I had to watch roots in jr high. I learned nothing from it. Hated the movie, was very disinterested, and couldn't really tell you what it was aabout after wasting a few days pretending to watch the silly thing.

I think taking part in this kind of activity would have taught me much more. Luckily we had no black kids in my jr.high - so I guess we could have gotten away with it. Now, there were a few black kids in my HS. So, I guess at that time we it would have been taboo. Shrug.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

Blackdog said:

WTF? Why the hell is slavery such a touchy subject??? It ended, it's over. None of us were slaves. Some people act like slavery ended yesterday, give me a break!

So the kids were "role playing" slaves and master, and for this the teacher (following school methods) should be fired? :doh

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It is historical memory and consciousness. It is somewhat of a universal problem, but perhaps to Americans it is even more strongly held than in many other regions. We have to grapple with the fact it was not long ago (historically speaking) that this occurred at the same time that Americans are more apt to view its nation from beginning to perhaps end as a good nation (perhaps the best of nations).

I cannot quite side with contemporary American liberals on this issue, but I am quite aware of its existence and why it is especially dangerous territory.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

buck said:

I had to watch roots in jr high. I learned nothing from it. Hated the movie, was very disinterested, and couldn't really tell you what it was aabout after wasting a few days pretending to watch the silly thing.

I think taking part in this kind of activity would have taught me much more. Luckily we had no black kids in my jr.high - so I guess we could have gotten away with it. Now, there were a few black kids in my HS. So, I guess at that time we it would have been taboo. Shrug.

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It taught me a great deal, especially in regards to Historiography. It came at a time where there had been just enough emphasis on the African American slave family that was being reevaluated by historians following the American Civil Rights Movement. There was a new found..well, again, emphasis, on the notion that the slavery institution, while immensely overpowering, could not quite stomp out entirely the will of individuals and families from doing what is possible to survive and stay connected. So you would begin to see writers focusing on the times where slaves would be trying to negotiate or maneuver through the institution in whatever way they could to protect themselves or even get the tiniest scraps of what we value in human existence.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

buck said:

I had to watch roots in jr high. I learned nothing from it. Hated the movie, was very disinterested, and couldn't really tell you what it was aabout after wasting a few days pretending to watch the silly thing.

I think taking part in this kind of activity would have taught me much more. Luckily we had no black kids in my jr.high - so I guess we could have gotten away with it. Now, there were a few black kids in my HS. So, I guess at that time we it would have been taboo. Shrug.

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Wow. Roots was great. I haven't read the book but I plan on doing so. Don't know how anyone could possibly think it's "silly," it was and is a work of art. Even the fact that OJ was innit didn't detract from it..

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

Fiddytree said:

It taught me a great deal, especially in regards to Historiography. It came at a time where there had been just enough emphasis on the African American slave family that was being reevaluated by historians following the American Civil Rights Movement. There was a new found..well, again, emphasis, on the notion that the slavery institution, while immensely overpowering, could not quite stomp out entirely the will of individuals and families from doing what is possible to survive and stay connected. So you would begin to see writers focusing on the times where slaves would be trying to negotiate or maneuver through the institution in whatever way they could to protect themselves or even get the tiniest scraps of what we value in human existence.

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It really is one of those things where if I watched it now, I might like it. But, I was never one that liked being told what I had to do something. For example, In HS we had to read catcher in the rye. I was a big reader at the time (Tolstoy, King, few others), but refused to read that book and pretty much any others that were assigned to us. Failed that portion of the class, obviously. However, after HS, I I was bored one day, decided to pick it up, and absolutely loved it. I've read it a few times since then.

Anyway, I would have learned a bit from the role playing lesson, I really do believe.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

Fiddytree said:

It is historical memory and consciousness. It is somewhat of a universal problem, but perhaps to Americans it is even more strongly held than in many other regions. We have to grapple with the fact it was not long ago (historically speaking) that this occurred at the same time that Americans are more apt to view its nation from beginning to perhaps end as a good nation (perhaps the best of nations).

I cannot quite side with contemporary American liberals on this issue, but I am quite aware of its existence and why it is especially dangerous territory.

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That's right; gotta keep that white guilt alive.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

buck said:

It really is one of those things where if I watched it now, I might like it. But, I was never one that liked being told what I had to do something. For example, In HS we had to read catcher in the rye. I was a big reader at the time (Tolstoy, King, few others), but refused to read that book and pretty much any others that were assigned to us. Failed that portion of the class, obviously. However, after HS, I I was bored one day, decided to pick it up, and absolutely loved it. I've read it a few times since then.

Anyway, I would have learned a bit from the role playing lesson, I really do believe.

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IMHO Catcher in the rye was pure garbage no matter how you spin it. Just my two cents. Some American lit that we're forced to read in high school are great. Others, not so much...

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

the slave goes on to be a wealthy business man and famous philanthropist. It's a triumph of will.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

apdst said:

That's right; gotta keep that white guilt alive.

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I won't deny that is definitely a part of it, apdst. I am also suggesting that it is quintessentially American to ponder these thoughts, though our proposed solutions could differ quite differently from other American ideals. Remember Winthrop's immortal speech on Christian Charity, which is very much a part of our character.

For we must consider that we shall be as a city upon a hill. The eyes of all people are upon us. So that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken, and so cause Him to withdraw His present help from us, we shall be made a story and a by-word through the world.

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Americans have been incredibly morally mindful and historically conscious. Combined, the darker times in our history become incredible sore spots that are not easily repaired.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

buck said:

It really is one of those things where if I watched it now, I might like it. But, I was never one that liked being told what I had to do something. For example, In HS we had to read catcher in the rye. I was a big reader at the time (Tolstoy, King, few others), but refused to read that book and pretty much any others that were assigned to us. Failed that portion of the class, obviously. However, after HS, I I was bored one day, decided to pick it up, and absolutely loved it. I've read it a few times since then.

Anyway, I would have learned a bit from the role playing lesson, I really do believe.

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As a high school student or a middle school student, I would not have comprehended the last lesson, especially should the instructor not address it's social and historiographical significance. Yes, it is quite common for assigned reading to seem bothersome when it could entirely be quite enjoyable.

A role playing lesson, I question many levels of the significance. There are some things that just cannot be ethically replicated, and should they be ethically positive, I would begin to question its exact meaning because it is missing that very tragic portion of historical reality. Further still, the lesson would likely leave out the part that slaves would at times do what they could to make a sale attractive in order to stay together as a unit...or likewise, try to sweeten the deal so that they would not be sold and separated.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

danarhea said:

WTF? With a teacher like this, then maybe the Republicans are right about wanting to gut the teachers' unions there. LOL.



Article is here.

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I think its stupid to do a slavery reenactment at school. No amount of reenacting in the class room can ever make anyone feel or realize how much suffering those people actually went through. Its like getting a paper cut and saying I now know how giving birth without any drugs feels like or what its like you have a limb cut off really slow with a dull blade. The teacher could have just shown roots.

But, seriously, this teacher should be given a pink slip, the sooner the better.

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They will probably do what some call passing the trash.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

Mickey Shane said:

A bit insensitive appears to be your stand on this issue. When I was 13 our band had a 15 year old African-American kid for a front man. I went to Jr. High while he was going to high school. When his history teacher covered slavery in the classroom he stayed home 'sick'.

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A bit oversensitive appears to be your stand on the issue. If this was explained clearly and there was no bias involved, I see no issue with this, other than the fact that 10 might be a little young for this kind of exercise.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

Mickey Shane said:

Context is being one of two AA kids in a class about slavery.

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So what? There was no bias in the division of the children and it is appropriate for all children, regardless of race to learn about this part of our history.

The child has a right to complain. He probably wasn't very comfortable with the whole exercise to begin with.

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Sure he can complain if he was uncomfortable. That doesn't mean that the exercise was a problem. But he certainly can complain.

I'd fire the teacher immediately.

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And you'd be overreacting.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

Mickey Shane said:

I'd fire the teacher immediately.

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You would try, until you found out the teacher had tenure, and that according to their union contract you could only place them on paid leave for something like this.

Oh noes, don't place me on paid leave...whatever shall I do.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

I honestly don't know where I stand on this. I don't think that the race of the child really matters, even though that is what the article is trying to sensationalize. I'm more on the fence as to whether or not this demonstration is really age appropriate.

On one hand I see where Dan is coming from on this, as from what I recall of elementary school, most 5th graders tend to not have too much of a sense of fully developed empathy yet.

However, I didn't personally go through this exercise, and haven't talked to any of the children who did, so who knows whether or not they really learned the right lesson.

I covered most of this stuff in Middle School and know that I was definitely pretty shaken up by our Holocaust unit, although the closest thing we ever did along the lines of this class exercise was when we were covering the American Revolution. I was assigned the role of William Penn if I recall correctly. I was one of those who had to be persuaded by either the American Revolutionaries or the British Loyalists.

Then again, maybe I just don't know because I've never been the most cooperative of students. During a reenactment of the court trial in to kill a mockingbird I ran circles around the girl assigned the role of Atticus Finch and actually presented a reasonably unbiased case for Tom Robinson's guilt (the existence of the back-hand was a case breaker.)

However, that doesn't make me a racist. Just like a black kid randomly being assigned the role of a slave doesn't make the teacher racist.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

StillBallin75 said:

IMHO Catcher in the rye was pure garbage no matter how you spin it. Just my two cents. Some American lit that we're forced to read in high school are great. Others, not so much...

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Yeah, not everyone's cup. Just like Roots.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

sazerac said:

the slave goes on to be a wealthy business man and famous philanthropist. It's a triumph of will.

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Well, now you've gone and ruined the end. I can only imagine the amount of government assistance that was needed to make that occur. Did they portray that in the movie?

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

ludahai said:

I understand the intent of the exercise. It was, of course, to display one of the dehumanizing aspects of slavery. I did a similar lesson with 11th grade U.S. history students a few years ago. There were no black students and only one white student in the class, so race wasn't an issue. I also think 11th grade students are generally more mature than fifth grade students. I think the primary mistake was doing this with fifth graders. There will ALWAYS be parents who simply don't understand and will overreact. Unfortunately, they are often the ones who run the asylum...

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What do you mean there were no race issues?

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

American said:

What do you mean there were no race issues?

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He means there were no black students in his class so the racial issue didn't come up, as it did in this case.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

StillBallin75 said:

He means there were no black students in his class so the racial issue didn't come up, as it did in this case.

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Looks like you've become my official translater. So only black students can be offended.