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Thread: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play slave

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    Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Yup. Though I never did it, I've had lots of clients that have done it. One client, playing a "Nazi" organized some of her "fellow Nazi's" to fight back and join with the "Jews" to fight "the oppressive" school administrators (who organized the experiment). She got them to stop within the day. THAT was an interesting lesson in and of itself.
    We had one who objected to having to play a Nazi. The teacher gave us a quick example of a real sympathizer among the Nazi ranks, and the student was symbolically 'executed' for treason against the Fuhrer.

    No one got a bad grade for the exorcise, it was one of those things where you just had to be in class that day to get credit, so no harm don.

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    Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Correction. Seems like there were two black students: one was a "master" the other was a "slave". Doesn't sound like there was any discrimination or intent to harm.
    I would say that accurately reflects the history of modern slavery, that our black slaves were sold to us by their black masters.

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    Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I dont know if the classroom is the appropriate place for social experimentation, especially if the teacher isnt trained...there is a reason we have IRBs...still...if the class make-up was totally at random and kids and no one was specifically singled out for a particular role, I think its much ado about nothing.
    Training seems to be a problem with teachers these days.
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    Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    We had one who objected to having to play a Nazi. The teacher gave us a quick example of a real sympathizer among the Nazi ranks, and the student was symbolically 'executed' for treason against the Fuhrer.
    Excellent lesson, going along with the context of what was being taught.

    No one got a bad grade for the exorcise, it was one of those things where you just had to be in class that day to get credit, so no harm don.
    Generally, that's what I've heard how these experiments go, though the originator, Ron Jones, a teacher in California, saw his experiment go a bit out of control:

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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

    I understand the intent of the exercise. It was, of course, to display one of the dehumanizing aspects of slavery. I did a similar lesson with 11th grade U.S. history students a few years ago. There were no black students and only one white student in the class, so race wasn't an issue. I also think 11th grade students are generally more mature than fifth grade students. I think the primary mistake was doing this with fifth graders. There will ALWAYS be parents who simply don't understand and will overreact. Unfortunately, they are often the ones who run the asylum...
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    Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I also think that 10 years old is a bit young to manage a lesson like this, but if the students were randomized, the complaining about this is ridiculous. It's like a comedian telling an ethnic joke at a comedy club and a few people becoming offended. Context, people.
    The most effective professor I had would make you clearly define your positions and beliefs, then research and defend the other side of the argument. I agree about the 10 year olds. Still, in Jane Elliots Class Divided experiment, the long term results at least indicate the experiment had lasting long term positive impact. Probably a well intentioned idea.

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    Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

    Generally speaking, especially at that age, it is necessary to remain in dialog with students rather than with reenactments of such subjects. Adults are sensitive toward passive reenactments of such things. Adults are thus horrified when their children go through anything similar, no matter the intention.

    History is dangerous. Just as the historian has to be careful, the primary school educator needs to be even more careful.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 03-13-11 at 07:49 PM.
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    Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The most effective professor I had would make you clearly define your positions and beliefs, then research and defend the other side of the argument.
    This is how I learned to debate in college. One of the best professors I had taught me the same thing.

    I agree about the 10 year olds. Still, in Jane Elliots Class Divided experiment, the long term results at least indicate the experiment had lasting long term positive impact. Probably a well intentioned idea.
    I agree. I'd be curious to know what the STUDENTS thought and learned from the exercise, not the parents.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Training seems to be a problem with teachers these days.
    Perhaps this, but I think of it more as a failure of imagination and common sense.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

    After reading the story, I can understand why race relations in this country are so bad...

    People are idiots.

    Nothing wrong with this lesson, and the complaints are just as stupid.
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