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Thread: Hispanics Are Surging in Arizona

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    Re: Hispanics Are Surging in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    No, the employers fill them out. The government can easily, though audit processes that are already in place, do additional checks on the documentation given in I-9 forms to determine whether or not they are fraudulent. If they are, because the illegal gave false ID, then the company didn't know, and the illegal goes to prison for fraud, and is then deported when his sentence is finished. However, if the company management does not turn in I-9 forms, and illegals are working there, then the company management goes to jail. It's as simple as that.
    Okay. That's beginning to make a little sense. But the I-9 form has been around since 1986. I've never filled one out in my life. Yet it says that every employee must fill one out. So how does an employer make the decision that he needs to have an I-9 from someone?
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    Re: Hispanics Are Surging in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    The irony here is pretty thick. Despite the government's harshest measures, the rate of increase of the Hispanic population is among the hugest in the United States.

    For illegal immigration, Arizona authorities need to crack down, but if they take it as far as the bigotry that racial profiling is based on, then they should consider what it is like to be a minority in Arizona. After all, white people WILL be a minority in Arizona eventually. When that happens, they had better hope that the LEGAL Hispanic majority in Arizona doesn't remember what was done to them in an earlier time. If they do, then it is just possible that you might be seeing white people stopped by the police on a regular basis, and being forced to show proof that they are not members of the Ku Klux Klan.

    Article is here.
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    Re: Hispanics Are Surging in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Your trolling has been disregarded. Did you actually read the bill? Here's a clue, the bill doesn't define what reasonable suspicion is.
    LOL, I provide the link explaining reasonable suspicion and you call it trolling. No law on the books now define reasonable suspicion. It's a creature of case law. Bet I've read the law more than you have. It's obvious you just want to remain willfully ignorant. Well, good job on that, at least.
    Last edited by X Factor; 03-13-11 at 11:36 PM.
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    Re: Hispanics Are Surging in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Okay. That's beginning to make a little sense. But the I-9 form has been around since 1986. I've never filled one out in my life. Yet it says that every employee must fill one out. So how does an employer make the decision that he needs to have an I-9 from someone?
    It is the law. There MUST be an I-9 filled out on each and every employee employed by the company. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. If you have never filled one out, then the company you work for is in violation of the law. Of course, that law is not being enforced much, which is probably why you never had to fill one out.
    Last edited by danarhea; 03-13-11 at 11:36 PM.
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    Re: Hispanics Are Surging in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Oh well, if Newsweek says it.
    Newsweek? Where have you been living under a rock?

    Arizona Law Promotes Racial Profiling - Forbes.com

    The problem is that the law (1) provides no standard for police as to what other than race constitutes reasonable suspicion; (2) requires police to make the reasonable suspicion assessment "during any lawful contact" with any person; (3) allows police to be sued if they under-enforce the law. Some of the law's proponents have suggested that the "lawful contact" clause means that only those already in trouble for some other reason will be subject to a demand for papers. This is false, and contrary to Fourth Amendment law.
    Frequently Asked Questions About the Arizona Racial Profiling Law | American Civil Liberties Union

    This bill, signed into law on April 23, 2010 by Arizona governor Jan Brewer, requires police officers in Arizona to demand papers proving citizenship or immigration status from people whom they stop, based only on some undefined "reasonable suspicion" that they are in the country unlawfully. But in America, everyone is supposed to be presumed innocent. This turns the presumption of innocence on its head.
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    Re: Hispanics Are Surging in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    How is it profiling to ask for a DL from everybody? If the driver has one, end of inquiry.
    Did you actually read the thread? More proof of your trolling. She asked why asking for DL fell outside the protections of the 4th. I explained that it's not unreasonable to ask for DL if the person is driving. Keep up troll.
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    Re: Hispanics Are Surging in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    It is not on the employers to verify documents. All they have to do is obey the law, and fill out the I-9 forms. Through audit process already in place for employment taxes, and employee withholding, the government can compare documents submitted by employees when they begin work at a company to records in existing databases. If fraudulent documents are submitted by an illegal alien, then he is prosecuted for fraud, and deported after serving a prison sentence. But if employers do not submit I-9 forms, and illegals are found to be working at the company, the company owner, or whoever is responsible, goes to jail.
    The problem with this is the government when it decides to actually check the documentation is so slow about it that illegals can avoid them. I have known a couple that simply get a new job about once a year knowing full well that it typically takes the government longer then that to catch up with their current place of employment. By job hopping they negate the governments effort. Now if employers could check they would likely never get the job.

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    Re: Hispanics Are Surging in Arizona

    Again, and I'm typing slowly, no law on the books now define reasonable suspicion, and all laws require some degree of discretion and judgment from law enforcement. Stop pretending all this applies only to this law.
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    Re: Hispanics Are Surging in Arizona

    A question for all --

    Why can't the state of Arizone check I-9's? If an answer would be that it's "federal," then why can't Arizona make it "state" with their own law?
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    Re: Hispanics Are Surging in Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    LOL, I provide the link explaining reasonable suspicion and you call it trolling. No law on the books now define reasonable suspicion. It's a creature of case law. Bet I've read the law more than you have. It's obvious you just want to remain willfully ignorant. Well, good job on that, at least.
    I call it trolling because you still have not a clue as to what it is people are discussing. Whether reasonable suspicion is defined on Wikipedia or not is irrelevant. Reasonable suspicion as discussed in the bill is not defined within the bill. It's only been defined by training departments etc. Which is why everyone who is in opposition to this bill is saying that it ultimately will lead to racial profiling. The fact that you still don't know what the actual argument is is indicative of just how stupid most supporters of this law are.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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