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Thread: Arab League backs no-fly zone in Libya

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    Re: Arab League backs no-fly zone in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    No true historian thinks the people of RVN "chose" democracy. Just sayin'.
    Only a history major would disagree, because of their education in revised and incomplete history.

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    Re: Arab League backs no-fly zone in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Only a history major would disagree, because of their education in revised and incomplete history.
    Lets just not go there...

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    Re: Arab League backs no-fly zone in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Explain.



    Only if you let it...
    The term "embroiled" comes to mind, Jet. Our excursions in Viet Nam started off with limited enough intentions and exploded from there, and it wasn't necessarily a case of letting it happen as it was one event leading to another, and the making of decisions that seemed supportable at the time when taken individually, but were unwise as a whole and when taken in retrospect.

    Because we are a superpower, everything we do is placed under the microscope, and everything we do is spun according to the agendas of others. If we go in, and the final result is anything short of a theocratic state, we will be characterized by the Imams once again as the great Satan implementing yet another American attempt at crafting them in our image. If we fail to do anything, we will be accused of standing with dictatorial oppressors.

    The forces at work here have to do with Arab culture, the tendency towards authoritarianism being confronted by these nascent moves towards democracy, and if there is anything truly democratic to come of it, our own involvement needs to be extremely limited; otherwise, we will just be used by the theocrats in such a way as to move the populations away from something that is truly democratic, and towards an Islamist state.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Arab League backs no-fly zone in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Only a history major would disagree, because of their education in revised and incomplete history.
    Each historian has different opinions. But historians are not entitled to their own facts. You have yet to show me how the South Vietnamese chose democracy. I previously showed you plenty of evidence to the contrary. If you're a historian you have an assertion, back it up with some damn evidence.

    For once we find some common ground and you sound like a agreeable/logical person to me, and then it's back to your own revisionist history. Do you really enjoy getting a rise out of people? Because you're still invited to the basement.

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    Re: Arab League backs no-fly zone in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    The term "embroiled" comes to mind, Jet. Our excursions in Viet Nam started off with limited enough intentions and exploded from there, and it wasn't necessarily a case of letting it happen as it was one event leading to another, and the making of decisions that seemed supportable at the time when taken individually, but were unwise as a whole and when taken in retrospect.

    Because we are a superpower, everything we do is placed under the microscope, and everything we do is spun according to the agendas of others. If we go in, and the final result is anything short of a theocratic state, we will be characterized by the Imams once again as the great Satan implementing yet another American attempt at crafting them in our image. If we fail to do anything, we will be accused of standing with dictatorial oppressors.

    The forces at work here have to do with Arab culture, the tendency towards authoritarianism being confronted by these nascent moves towards democracy, and if there is anything truly democratic to come of it, our own involvement needs to be extremely limited; otherwise, we will just be used by the theocrats in such a way as to move the populations away from something that is truly democratic, and towards an Islamist state.
    Hmmmm...

    1 Another Islamic state with sharia law and eventually, the oil states will become ONE and dictate oil prices

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    Re: Arab League backs no-fly zone in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Each historian has different opinions. But historians are not entitled to their own facts. You have yet to show me how the South Vietnamese chose democracy. I previously showed you plenty of evidence to the contrary. If you're a historian you have an assertion, back it up with some damn evidence.

    For once we find some common ground and you sound like a agreeable/logical person to me, and then it's back to your own revisionist history. Do you really enjoy getting a rise out of people? Because you're still invited to the basement.
    So, 1,000,000 Vietnamese immigrating to South Vietnam, after the Communists took over in the north couldn't be considered, "choosing Democracy"? What about the 2,000,000 boat people that left Vietnam on bamboo rafts in the 70's? Did they chose Democracy over Communism?

    After the demarcation line was established, I don't recall there being hoardes of Viets rushing to North Vietnam; vice they chose to stay in the south.

    Those are the facts, not opinion.

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    Re: Arab League backs no-fly zone in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, 1,000,000 Vietnamese immigrating to South Vietnam, after the Communists took over in the north couldn't be considered, "choosing Democracy"? What about the 2,000,000 boat people that left Vietnam on bamboo rafts in the 70's? Did they chose Democracy over Communism?

    After the demarcation line was established, I don't recall there being hoardes of Viets rushing to North Vietnam; vice they chose to stay in the south.

    Those are the facts, not opinion.
    Your facts are correct.

    Your assessment of causation is not.

    There are many reasons people fled from the North to the South.

    Alot of it had to do with religious persecution and the fact that Ngo was a ardent catholic and would protect them.

    The point is whether or not South Vietnam was a democracy. It was never a democracy.

    That is the point.

    The people may have wanted to choose democracy.

    But they never got it.

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    Re: Arab League backs no-fly zone in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, 1,000,000 Vietnamese immigrating to South Vietnam, after the Communists took over in the north couldn't be considered, "choosing Democracy"? What about the 2,000,000 boat people that left Vietnam on bamboo rafts in the 70's? Did they chose Democracy over Communism?

    After the demarcation line was established, I don't recall there being hoardes of Viets rushing to North Vietnam; vice they chose to stay in the south.

    Those are the facts, not opinion.
    Straw man.

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    Re: Arab League backs no-fly zone in Libya

    The Arab's can then do it. They have a huge air force and they are near by.

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    Re: Arab League backs no-fly zone in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    The Arab's can then do it. They have a huge air force and they are near by.
    I don't think they really have the resources, much less the inclination, to maintain such operations for a sustained period of time all by themselves.

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