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Thread: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I find it hard to believe that the large numbers of drop outs and below grade level learning is due to parents not giving a rats ass. Most likely is states being forced to keep lousy teachers instead of canning them and replacing them with better teachers.
    I disagree with both of you. Parents are part of the problem in low-income neighborhoods, but not the entire problem.

    As far as education, incompetent teachers exist but they are few and far between. For the most part, teachers teach what policymakers tell them to teach (and policies vary in low-income and higher-income areas). Blaming teachers for poor education is like blaming a Nike salesman for selling you a crappy shoe.

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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I disagree with both of you. Parents are part of the problem in low-income neighborhoods, but not the entire problem.

    As far as education, incompetent teachers exist but they are few and far between. For the most part, teachers teach what policymakers tell them to teach (and policies vary in low-income and higher-income areas). Blaming teachers for poor education is like blaming a Nike salesman for selling you a crappy shoe.
    Why have you said time and again that incompetent teachers are far and few between? On what do you base that assumption? On thin air....because teachers aren't effectively evaluated. There are incompetents everywhere. As for comparing teachers to Nike shoe salesmen, thanks to tenure, there are many times I think you're right.
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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    How?

    It ain't the schools. It's the lack of mom and dad giving a damn. Never mind, I forgot, there is no dad.
    It's never ever the schools. It's never ever the teachers. It's never ever the school administration. It can be anything else in the world but not those. If there were professionals involved they would accept some responsibility for correcting the problems. But, of course, there aren't professionals involved.

    So, let's hear more excuses.

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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    It's both. Schools in low-income, minority neighborhoods suck. Many parents in low-income minority neighborhoods don't fight to change them.
    And if they cant change them , then they can take there kid somewhere else huh? Oop's thats right, Dear Leader put a stop to that.

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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Gein View Post
    I saw a video of a five foot nothing lady cop trying to arrest a monster who was like six and half feet tall and close to three hundred pounds. She nearly died for the sake of good feelings.

    Awesome.
    Hey, I've seen a five foot nothing lady (not a cop though) beat the ever loving crap out of a guy that was 6' 5". Don't knock the lady just because of her height. Height means jack squat in a fight. As the littlest guy growing up in school trust me, I know this fact very well.
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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Why have you said time and again that incompetent teachers are far and few between? On what do you base that assumption? On thin air....because teachers aren't effectively evaluated. There are incompetents everywhere.
    If you don't think I can make that argument without stats, then you shouldn't make the opposite argument without stats.

    It's also funny that you say in the same statement that 'teachers aren't effectively evaluated' and that 'there are incompetents are everywhere'. If you don't think they are effectively evaluated, then how can you claim that there are incompetents are everywhere. It's becoming hard to argue with someone who holds herself to lower standards than she does the person she's debating with.

    Remember when you criticized me yesterday for posting a 'biased' source and then proceeded to post a source from a biased conservative website. Really?

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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I disagree with both of you. Parents are part of the problem in low-income neighborhoods, but not the entire problem.

    As far as education, incompetent teachers exist but they are few and far between. For the most part, teachers teach what policymakers tell them to teach (and policies vary in low-income and higher-income areas).
    If its true what was said in "Waiting for Superman" that only 1 in 1000 teachers is fired while 1 out 57 doctors loses their license to practice medicine and 1 and every 97 lawyers loses their licenses to practice law, then how can you say that lousy teachers are not most of the blame or few and far between?



    Keeping Bad Teachers in Front of Students | Teachers Union Facts
    According to the pro-education reform documentary Waiting for ‘Superman,’ one out of every 57 doctors loses his or her license to practice medicine.

    One out of every 97 lawyers loses their license to practice law.

    In many major cities, only one out of 1000 teachers is fired for performance-related reasons.
    Blaming teachers for poor education is like blaming a Nike salesman for selling you a crappy shoe.
    That is the most stupidest comment I have ever seen. If a shoe salesman sells me the wrong shoe for the wrong activity, the wrong size or sells me a lousy shoe then why shouldn't I blame him?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrickt View Post
    It's never ever the schools. It's never ever the teachers. It's never ever the school administration. It can be anything else in the world but not those. If there were professionals involved they would accept some responsibility for correcting the problems. But, of course, there aren't professionals involved.

    So, let's hear more excuses.
    I've never met anyone whose argued that. Most people who disagree with the arguments presented in this thread are rather moderate in their claims.

    1. I and others have constantly said that schools teach students ineffectively.
    2. I and others have constantly said that there are incompetent teachers and that reforms to tenure should be made.
    3. I and others have constantly pointed to ineffective school administrators.

    Our actions do not live up to the image that you've painted.

    Most people take issue with how many on here and elsewhere villainize teachers to the point that they won't even consider what they have to say. It's difficult to debate with people who characterize you as greedy people who only care about money and your post does nothing to help the situation.

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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If its true what was said in "Waiting for Superman" that only 1 in 1000 teachers is fired while 1 out 57 doctors loses their license to practice medicine and 1 and every 97 lawyers loses their licenses to practice law, then how can you say that lousy teachers are not most of the blame or few and far between?



    Keeping Bad Teachers in Front of Students | Teachers Union Facts
    According to the pro-education reform documentary Waiting for ‘Superman,’ one out of every 57 doctors loses his or her license to practice medicine.

    One out of every 97 lawyers loses their license to practice law.

    In many major cities, only one out of 1000 teachers is fired for performance-related reasons.


    That is the most stupidest comment I have ever seen. If a shoe salesman sells me the wrong shoe for the wrong activity, the wrong size or sells me a lousy shoe then why shouldn't I blame him?
    If only 1 out of 1000 teachers is fired, maybe they don't deserve to be fired.

    Waiting for Superman had a lot of biases in it - bias in favor of charter schools (which btw, do not perform better than public schools) and bias against tenure (which, btw does not not affect student performance).

    Everybody keeps posting this article in front of me, but no one has shown any evidence that they have seriously analyzed the education system and seriously considered the opinions of those who disagree with them. I have examined both sides and I have come to a conclusion.

    The Nike comment:
    1. Most stupidest isn't the proper grammatical phrase. It is 'most stupid'.
    2. If a Nike salesmen sells you a crappy shoe (I mean quality wise), it's not his fault. The higher ups determine the material and quality of their shoe; he is in no position to make those decisions. It is the same with teachers. They teach what their bosses tell them to teach, they do not determine the policies. In both cases, some salesman or teacher might get drunk during their shifts and should be fired (which is why reforming tenure is good for the latter), but they cannot be blamed for the products that they're selling,
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 03-13-11 at 04:29 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Yet more evidence that this administration's Eric Holder is a bigot.

    The purpose of testing is to identify those qualified to do the job. It should not be set aside when not enough people of Eric Holder's race are shown to be qualified.

    Here's what should be done if some feel minorities are insufficiently represented on their police forces: They should demand to know why the teachers unions are failing to educate their children so they can pass those tests and get those jobs, and what teachers are going to be fired to improve the quality of education for their children.
    It's a larger problem than just Eric Holder, but I don't think he's doing anything to help. There were similar cases from 2006/2007 involving Virginia and Maryland. I think it's one division of the DOJ, probably the Civil Rights division, that has run amok and has a serious case of the stupids.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

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