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Thread: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    what's wrong with construction, mechanical repair, or anything else like that? we need all kinds of people in our society, and everbody CAN'T be a doctor.

    absolutely, we should always strive to raise up the poor, but let's face it, some people will never make 100k a year, nor should they.
    1. It's less about money and more about opportunity and raising our country's standards for competition. 2. The argument that 'some people will never {insert high standard}' does not deal with the fact that more of those people are in low-income, minority areas than in other areas. For example, I've heard people say 'some people just aren't cut out for college'. Except, it's not just 'some people' we're talking about and not being cut out for college is not often a measure of individual capacities.

    It's not random that there are less people 'cut out for college' or 'capable of making 100k' in poor neighborhoods than there are in middle class neighborhoods and it actually pisses me off when people treat the drop out rates in low-income neighborhoods the same way they treat the less frequent drop outs in middle class and wealthy neighborhoods (as if they describe the same phenomenon of some middle class kid who 'just isn't cut of for {insert}').

    as long as people can work with a living wage i'm ok with that. we will always have SOME lost causes.
    I agree that the program is a good solution and that it should be a permanent part of the education system, but I see no reason why we can't actually make an effort. I have had heard so many people make the argument that a vocational based education system is best for certain people, but most of those people would never put their own children in the same system. That's very telling to me.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 03-14-11 at 01:37 PM.

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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    agreed. but i think we still have a responsbility to attempt to educate until the age of 16. kids can't change their parents. i would never agree, (and can hardly believe) that 19 year olds are ninth graders. oscar was correct when he said everbody can't be a doctor, or whatever it was he posted. most kids can be trained for something, it use to be called vocational education, is that gone now?
    Vocational ed in our area is where kids are sent that cant hack school. ity SHOULD be considered a good option. I think they ought to have different high school degree tracks and there is nothing at all wrong with teaching basic education and vocational skills. Usually though it is seen as a place where all the dropouts and stoners go...an 'alternative' highschool. 'Alternative highschools' are BS as well...they teach kids that they can still fail and if they do a little extra credit they can graduate from HS...but are not prepared to face the world.

    I think we can and should ATTEMPT to educate people...but not at the expense of those that are actually invested in learning. Employ a little Darwin...a little evolution. Succeed and you achieve. Dont...and...you dont.

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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Gein View Post
    I saw a video of a five foot nothing lady cop trying to arrest a monster who was like six and half feet tall and close to three hundred pounds. She nearly died for the sake of good feelings.

    Awesome.
    You use a mass murderer as your icon?

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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    They shouldn't lower standards. I completely agree. That's counterproductive.

    But maybe they should raise education standards in predominantly black neighborhoods so they wouldn't have any reason to lower other standards.
    I would agree with your point if EVERY student in those schools failed.

    Even in the worst of schools, if the student wants to learn and do well, he/she will.

    I think the problem is in the home more than in eventhe worst schools out there.

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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    I would agree with your point if EVERY student in those schools failed.

    Even in the worst of schools, if the student wants to learn and do well, he/she will.

    I think the problem is in the home more than in eventhe worst schools out there.
    I agree that students who don't want to learn and also uninvolved parents are part of the problem.

    However, in every society in history, the poorest have been the least educated which says to me that society's don't put in a lot of effort into educating them. The United States has not accounted very well in its system for the problems that affecting learning in poor areas. We teach them like we teach middle class kids. They need a little extra.

    Also, low-income schools get much less funding because they pay much lower property taxes. Because of this, the after school activities that would keep some board kids away from gangs and the materials to spark interest in education are missing when if present, they would serve as time-consuming distractions from the problems at home. I think the problem is widespread enough that raising education standards could get a lot more students in those areas doing well. I don't think it solves all the problems, but I think it can solve many.

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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    However, in every society in history, the poorest have been the least educated which says to me that society's don't put in a lot of effort into educating them.
    it's a vicious cycle. they are poor because they are un/undereducated. they are un/undereducated because they are poor. today's society puts just as much effort into educating the poor as it does most everyone else. my two oldest kids went to the same public school and got the same education as the "poor" kids who lived in the trailer park a hlaf mile down the street.

    you can raise standards all you like, unfortunately it is much harder to raise the motivation of some people to meet those standards.


    as my old pappy always said, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink"
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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post

    Also, low-income schools get much less funding because they pay much lower property taxes.



    Paterson NJ, a city that is one of the worst and poorest cities in NJ: $14,587 per student

    Newark NJ, Needs no introduction: $17,760 per student.



    Bernerds TWP, NJ, A very affluent town: $10,841



    It is a myth that poor inner city schools are underfunded. In fact they usually get more per student than comparitive towns that are not poor.


    Comparative Spending Guide 2008
    Last edited by ReverendHellh0und; 03-14-11 at 03:20 PM.
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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Paterson NJ, a city that is one of the worst and poorest cities in NJ: $14,587 per student

    Newark NJ, Needs no introduction: $17,760 per student.



    Bernerds TWP, NJ, A very affluent town: $10,841



    It is a myth that poor inner city schools are underfunded. In fact they usually get more per student than comparitive towns that are not poor.


    Comparative Spending Guide 2008
    In my state they all get funded equally. they actually take money away from rich schools and give it to the poor schools to balance it out. kids in the poor school districts still perform worse.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Paterson NJ, a city that is one of the worst and poorest cities in NJ: $14,587 per student

    Newark NJ, Needs no introduction: $17,760 per student.


    Bernerds TWP, NJ, A very affluent town: $10,841



    It is a myth that poor inner city schools are underfunded. In fact they usually get more per student than comparitive towns that are not poor.


    Comparative Spending Guide 2008
    It's not a myth. There are many reports on it. Here's one of many. Thanks for the selective numbers though.

    http://www.wested.org/online_pubs/pp-03-01.pdf

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    Re: Dayton Police Department Ordered to Lower Standards to Hire More Blacks

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I agree that students who don't want to learn and also uninvolved parents are part of the problem.

    However, in every society in history, the poorest have been the least educated which says to me that society's don't put in a lot of effort into educating them. The United States has not accounted very well in its system for the problems that affecting learning in poor areas. We teach them like we teach middle class kids. They need a little extra.

    Also, low-income schools get much less funding because they pay much lower property taxes. Because of this, the after school activities that would keep some board kids away from gangs and the materials to spark interest in education are missing when if present, they would serve as time-consuming distractions from the problems at home. I think the problem is widespread enough that raising education standards could get a lot more students in those areas doing well. I don't think it solves all the problems, but I think it can solve many.
    With what you said above, how do you take this into account.

    When I was in school, in California, there were busloads of students brought in from Compton and other cities in LA to the valley. We had one of the best academic records in all of LAUSD, we couldn't win a football game to save our lives but that is another story, however that did not help most of the students bussed over.

    The students that wanted to learn could and the ones that didn't threw it away.

    The one guy I kept in touch with, was a bussed student. He is black. He did take advantage of the education and graduated.

    He then proceded to put himself through college. It took him 10 years to get his first degree, but he did it himself. I never heard him say he couldn't do it, or he wasn't allowed because of his skin color. He did it all himself.

    I realise that is anecdotal information, but my point still stands.

    If the student wants to learn, they will.

    A test should never be dumbed down for a certain group that has sat in the exact same classes as the other groups.

    It is all about personal choice.
    Last edited by Mason66; 03-14-11 at 04:13 PM.

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