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Thread: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If you don't love them, then when you recite your vows in the solemnization process you are committing fraud on the other person and they can sue you accordingly.
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    That is a lie.
    Not necssarily. It really depends upon the laws of the individual state. If the state has laws that give the process the wieght of sworn testamony then it is possible, although highly unlikely. Much in the same way that adultry laws are no longer enforced save as divorce basis. Some states or individual court systems no longer require you to do more that prove you are who is on the certificate and the official to ask if you're sure you want to do it.

    Also keep in mind that a lie is a statement that you know if false at the time you make it. If Jerry truely believes the statement, then while it may be an incorrect statement, it's not a lie. Please be careful when making such accusations.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You have the same right as that other sex.

    That other sex noes not have "the right to marry a man".

    That other sex has "the right to marry the opposite sex", just as you do also.
    Actually as you go through this, I think it would be more the "right to marry" or the "right to enter into a marriage" and then marriage has to be legally defined. We have the right to free speech. Then we define free speech to not include slander, libel or things like yelling "fire' in a crowded venue.

    Likewise, currently marriage is defined as being between opposite genders. So right now even gay people have to right to marry but it is limited to opposite genders, but the definition of marriage can be changed and the right remains only now more options are available.

    Granted both arguments have a good legal weight behind them, IMHO as one who has not done any indepth study of law. It really comes down to how you define the right to marry. Is it the right to marry the opposite gender, or the right to marry another person?

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Each sex can marry the opposite sex, neither sex can marry the same sex.
    Wait a minute, where does that leave people with indeterminate genitalia? I'm putting aside those who are mentally one gender and physically another and those in transition from one to the other for the moment. Seriously, how do we go about determining the gender? Do we require a genetic test? If they have one or more X chromosone then they are male?

    This just occured to me.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Homosexual marriage is all about MONEY. Its all about benefit sharing and passing on Social security and and insurances it will cost the taxpayers a fortune
    And heterosexual marriages have never been about getting citizenship early, or merging family fortunes or any number of non-love issues? Seriously, you need to do better than that.

    I would like to know how you prove that two men or two women are really not heterosexuals posing as homosexuals just to share their benefits and Social Security etc.
    I would like to know how you prove that two sets of couple engaged in hetrosexual marriages are not actually homosexuals working together just to share their benefits and Social Security etc.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Okay, so your stating its perfectly fine for states to pass unconstitutional laws because they can enforce them until SCOTUS strikes it down? How amazingly fiscally responsible of you.
    That's not what I am saying either. I don't think any state intentionally passes laws they know to be unconstitutional. When they do, however, it is the SCOTUS responsibility to overturn them. What the SCOTUS find unconstitutional and what YOU find unconstitutional just may not be the same thing.

    The CONSTITUTION has a supremacy clause. The CONSTITUTION also includes the Equal Protection Clause that puts limits on the ability of the government...including state governments due to the supremacy clause...on discrimination under the law.
    The states have the right to group citizens. The equal protection clause is limited by such groups.

    So I ask you again....are you suggesting that the Equal Protection Clause does not apply to the states?
    I will tell you again...that is not what I said or even alluded too. See above reply.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Exactly....bigotry is dying out with the aging population. Of course, there will always be bigots in every generation...but the statistic show that each new generation is less and less bigoted. Its just a matter of time.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    ^ This.

    The problem is that most power in this country is handed down. Have you ever noticed that it's mostly aristocrats who become congress people? They tend to be a pretty conservative bunch. According to the standards of the rest of the western world, the American democrats are right leaning, and the GOP are very conservative.

    The twisted values will just get handed down, but with each passing there will be slight changes. If you think there will be major changes, don't hold your breath.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    That's not what I am saying either. I don't think any state intentionally passes laws they know to be unconstitutional. When they do, however, it is the SCOTUS responsibility to overturn them. What the SCOTUS find unconstitutional and what YOU find unconstitutional just may not be the same thing.
    This is absolutely true. However, what you find as constitutional is not necessarily the same thing as something being constitutional. In your mind this type of thing isn't unconstitutional, so you have no problem with it being passed. And that's fine. However its no more legitimate than my belief that it is unconstitutional and that the state shouldn't be engaging in it.

    The states have the right to group citizens. The equal protection clause is limited by such groups.
    And one such grouping that the EPC limits what the government can do to them is ones based on sex/gender.

    Is it unquestionably unconstitutional by the EPC? No. Is it unquestionably constitutional? No either. There are legitimate and significant questions and legally worthwhile arguments that the laws are unconstitutional. And its completely legitimate to argue against a policy or law based on your belief that it is unconstitutional.

    For example see both the Democrats arguing against the Patriot Act under Bush or Republicans arguing against the Health Care Bill under Obama.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    This is absolutely true. However, what you find as constitutional is not necessarily the same thing as something being constitutional. In your mind this type of thing isn't unconstitutional, so you have no problem with it being passed. And that's fine. However its no more legitimate than my belief that it is unconstitutional and that the state shouldn't be engaging in it.
    So you think it's not fair, and since it's not fair, SSM shouldn't be unlawful.

    And one such grouping that the EPC limits what the government can do to them is ones based on sex/gender.
    Right, women can marry men and vice versa.

    Is it unquestionably unconstitutional by the EPC? No. Is it unquestionably constitutional? No either. There are legitimate and significant questions and legally worthwhile arguments that the laws are unconstitutional. And its completely legitimate to argue against a policy or law based on your belief that it is unconstitutional.
    Then I would imagine someone at sometime would have challenged them and brought them to the supreme court to decide.

    For example see both the Democrats arguing against the Patriot Act under Bush or Republicans arguing against the Health Care Bill under Obama.
    It's not that clear cut, but I understand what you're saying. Many if not most Democrats voted for the patriot act, and voted to renew it.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post


    Wow!

    So homosexuals don't love eachother at all?

    Well, actually do be fair...

    I don't think anyone getting married has to do with love. Being married doesn't suddenly make one person love another person more, it doesn't create love, doesn't even define love nor require love. A couple who is single and then gets married the next day had as much love the day before and the day after. Marriage is not required for love...it is required for the large amount of financial, governmental, and economical benefits that our society and our government bestow upon it.

    So no, heterosexual marriage isn't about love either.

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