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Thread: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If we can't do it now either, gays can't say we can do something they can not, hence there is no discrimination.

    Absolutely there is.....you are simply engaging in circular reasoning. Yes....neither gays/straights can marry a person of the same sex...but straight people can marry the person that they are in love with. Gay people are not able to do that.....HENCE....there IS discrimination.


    Hence....gays can only marry the person that the government says that they are allowed to....

    Hence....big government involvement....

    Hence.....so much for your claims of love for small government.
    Last edited by disneydude; 03-21-11 at 10:06 PM.
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Laws benefit the law-abiding at the detriment of the law evader all the time. One group over another.
    But in this case, gay couples are not law evaders. You're playing semantics here, if you want to have a serious debate fine, if you're going to dissolve into ridiculous comparisons I'm not going to bother.

    Irrelevant. The state has the right to regulate itself to promote an environment it's citizens want to live in.
    Exactly. What you said was irrelevant. I still don't see what that has to do with SSM.
    Also, it only has that right so long as it doesn't step on other peoples' rights.
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Mac and Jerry, when did the 10th amendment suddenly not apply to amendments 11 onward?

    Because apparently based on what you're saying here, in whatever imaginary world you all are talking about states can freely break the EPC clause unless its discriminating in a way that is specifically word for word listed in the constitution, AND apparently a constitution exists that didn't establish a Supreme Court whose job is to interpret constitutional law.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Absolutely there is.....you are simply engaging in circular reasoning. Yes....neither gays/straights can marry a person of the same sex...but straight people can marry the person that they are in love with. Gay people are not able to do that.....HENCE....there IS discrimination.
    Siblings can't "marry the person that they are in love with" either. Golly.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Hence....gays can only marry the person that the government says that they are allowed to....
    Just like everyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Hence....big government involvement....
    You mean lack-of involvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Hence.....so much for your claims of love for small government.
    A list of groupings the government won't honor is hardly involvement. Now if the government were actively banning gays from being together, arresting them for holding hands, then that would be involvement.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Mac and Jerry, when did the 10th amendment suddenly not apply to amendments 11 onward?

    Because apparently based on what you're saying here, in whatever imaginary world you all are talking about states can freely break the EPC clause unless its discriminating in a way that is specifically word for word listed in the constitution, AND apparently a constitution exists that didn't establish a Supreme Court whose job is to interpret constitutional law.
    Oh, do tell, where's this marriage amendment you're citing? Link please.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Mac and Jerry, when did the 10th amendment suddenly not apply to amendments 11 onward?

    Because apparently based on what you're saying here, in whatever imaginary world you all are talking about states can freely break the EPC clause unless its discriminating in a way that is specifically word for word listed in the constitution, AND apparently a constitution exists that didn't establish a Supreme Court whose job is to interpret constitutional law.
    That's not what either one of us are saying. The states have the right to enact laws to regulate their societies. If the laws they pass are unconstitutional the SCOTUS will strike them down. That doesn't mean the states no longer have the rights to make and enforce laws and it doesn't give the USG undue right to meddle in the affairs of the states.

    States also very much do have the right to define categories of people that laws apply to and that they don't apply to.
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    But in this case, gay couples are not law evaders. You're playing semantics here, if you want to have a serious debate fine, if you're going to dissolve into ridiculous comparisons I'm not going to bother.
    That was a little silly, I admit, but it was true. However, if the laws of the state define marriage as between a man and a woman..and two men get married....then they are what?

    Exactly. What you said was irrelevant. I still don't see what that has to do with SSM.
    No it wasn't...the state have the right to govern their societies. That includes everything from noise ordinances to construction code to marriage. That's just the way it is.

    Also, it only has that right so long as it doesn't step on other peoples' rights.
    Not completely true. Mainly since not everyone has the rights you think they do or should.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    That was a little silly, I admit, but it was true. However, if the laws of the state define marriage as between a man and a woman..and two men get married....then they are what?
    The laws? Violating the 14th amendment.

    No it wasn't...the state have the right to govern their societies. That includes everything from noise ordinances to construction code to marriage. That's just the way it is.
    Yes, but that doesn't have much to do with "Are the states allowed to pass laws designed to make the state a safe and pleasant place to live?". They do NOT have the right to make it more safe and pleasant (again, neither of which have to do with SSM) if it violates others' rights.
    Not completely true. Mainly since not everyone has the rights you think they do or should.
    Just because a state violates someone's rights doesn't mean it is justified.
    Let's look at what I said.
    "It (states) only has that right so long as it doesn't step on other peoples' rights."
    You say its not true because "not everyone has the rights you think they do or should."
    They don't have the rights BECAUSE the state violates them. This is not justification, this is explanation. Without the state barring them, they WOULD have that right.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    The laws? Violating the 14th amendment.



    Yes, but that doesn't have much to do with "Are the states allowed to pass laws designed to make the state a safe and pleasant place to live?". They do NOT have the right to make it more safe and pleasant (again, neither of which have to do with SSM) if it violates others' rights.


    Just because a state violates someone's rights doesn't mean it is justified.
    Let's look at what I said.
    "It (states) only has that right so long as it doesn't step on other peoples' rights."
    You say its not true because "not everyone has the rights you think they do or should."
    They don't have the rights BECAUSE the state violates them. This is not justification, this is explanation. Without the state barring them, they WOULD have that right.
    A SSM ban doesn't violate anyone's rights.

    You never had the right to marry the same sex to begin with. It can't be taken from you because you didn't have it to begin with.

    A SSM ban doesn't violate my rights because I never had that right in the first place.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    A SSM ban doesn't violate anyone's rights.

    You never had the right to marry the same sex to begin with. It can't be taken from you because you didn't have it to begin with.

    A SSM ban doesn't violate my rights because I never had that right in the first place.
    Did you have the right to OSM?
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

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