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Thread: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    I was talking about this claim not your comment there.

    So, in this case "Please present studies that show that heterosexuality it natural and homosexuality is unnatural. You said you have read them. I'd like to see how those studies made that determination." is a reasonable request.
    Ok, it was me being unclear. The studies I've read on homosexuality help me form my opinions. I have read no study that claims heterosexuality is any more natural than homosexuality. In todays climate, I sincerely doubt anyone would venture such a study to begin with.
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    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Ok, it was me being unclear. The studies I've read on homosexuality help me form my opinions. I have read no study that claims heterosexuality is any more natural than homosexuality. In todays climate, I sincerely doubt anyone would venture such a study to begin with.
    Ok, thanks for clearing that up. I have just one more question. If you have "read no study that claims heterosexuality is any more natural than homosexuality.", would it be fair to say that you have also never read a study that claimed homosexuality as any more unnatural than heterosexuality? I'm asking this because it seems to me that being natural and being unnatural should have an inverse relationship. If something is more natural, it is less unnatural and vice versa. Therefore, if heterosexuality is no more natural than homosexuality, homosexuality cannot be any more unnatural than heterosexuality.
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    Ok, thanks for clearing that up. I have just one more question. If you have "read no study that claims heterosexuality is any more natural than homosexuality.", would it be fair to say that you have also never read a study that claimed homosexuality as any more unnatural than heterosexuality? I'm asking this because it seems to me that being natural and being unnatural should have an inverse relationship. If something is more natural, it is less unnatural and vice versa. Therefore, if heterosexuality is no more natural than homosexuality, homosexuality cannot be any more unnatural than heterosexuality.
    I've not read a study dated post 1970 thatclaimed anything like that.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Is that a joke or do you really see this as a dichotomy?

    Most human behaviors are neither choice nor innate, but fall within a gray area between.

    However, arguing someone made a choice when they were traumatized and had a lasting change to their sexual orientation occur as result is akin to arguing that someone who was pushed into a fire chose to have burns. It's ridiculous.
    No it is more akin to whether a person has dark skin because they were born with it or because they choose to overdo a tan.

    Secondly, I did note that while "choice" wasn't the best selection for this specific case, the argument overall tends to boil down to whether it is a "choice" or "genetic/inate" Therefore, we tend to point our examples and evidence into one of those two catagories and I noted this. Trauma is not genetic or inate, therefore by default of the argument parameters it falls under "choice". Maybe "non-genetic/non-inate" would be better.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    You know what else is a born genetic trait?




    Siblings.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    In the pursuit of small government, one is required to oppose SSM, as SSM is the expansion of government; unconstitutionally so when children are not present.
    Exactly how is SSM "expansion of government"....it is LESS government involvement in people's lives.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Exactly how is SSM "expansion of government"....it is LESS government involvement in people's lives.
    You're introducing government influence into more relationships by including an additional demographic to the qualifying criteria.

    The government never before regulated gay relationships, but now it will. Those additional regulations are in fact the very reason gays are perusing legal marriage.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You're introducing government influence into more relationships by including an additional demographic to the qualifying criteria.

    The government never before regulated gay relationships, but now it will. Those additional regulations are in fact the very reason gays are perusing legal marriage.
    How exactly will SSM be the government regulating gay relationships? What exact regulations will gay couples, legally married and not, have to face that they didn't have to face before SSM was allowed? And, if they are choosing to get into the marriage contract with each other and have the government as an approving company in the arrangement, then isn't that them choosing to have any government regulations that come with it?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You're introducing government influence into more relationships by including an additional demographic to the qualifying criteria.

    The government never before regulated gay relationships, but now it will. Those additional regulations are in fact the very reason gays are perusing legal marriage.
    Thats a real stretch. By that logic...."Conservatives" would be for eliminating marriage all together....and I don't hear many advocating that.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    How exactly will SSM be the government regulating gay relationships? What exact regulations will gay couples, legally married and not, have to face that they didn't have to face before SSM was allowed? And, if they are choosing to get into the marriage contract with each other and have the government as an approving company in the arrangement, then isn't that them choosing to have any government regulations that come with it?
    Well, the first thing you need to get right is that the government isn't the approving agency for a private contract.

    The government is the issuing authority and a signing party on a public license.

    You aren't taking a private agreement to a public notary, you're asking the government for special privileges.

    A couple of several items any couple looses when they get married are the right to contract, as you can't have more than one spouse, and the right to freely associate, as adultery is grounds to sue for damages.

    If you're not married, then legally you can do whatever the hell you want. Marriage places a whole host of restrictions on you.

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