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Thread: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    Well, you think it is wrong and therefore deny others the same rights you enjoy.
    No, I personally do not deny others supposed rights, The rule of law does.

    This "eligibility" you speak of is not for you to decide.
    Absolutely, it's for the courts to decide.

    I just decided you're not equally eligible to go within 1 mile of where I live, on account of me feeling like it. That's fair, right?[/QUOTE]
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    No, I personally do not deny others supposed rights, The rule of law does.
    The law applies equally to all people. I remember that being a mildly important issue back in the day.

    I can't wait for it to go to the SC. There's no good legal argument you can make.
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    I support gay marriage being legal, but there is no Constitutional basis for forcing it to be legal and forcing states to recognize gay marriage.
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I'm talking about how things would interact with our learning experiences that push us to heterosexuality...if it is a learned behavior. The urge to procreate, in my mind, would push someone towards a lifestyle that more easily supports that. Our species reproduces sexually...requiring a male and a female to do it.
    When I asked you before what about heterosexuality is biology, you said "procreation". Now you are discussing procretation as a learned behavior. mac... you can't play both sides of the street. If you are stating that procreation is the biological component of heterosexuality, I will argue that. If you are saying that it is a learned component of heterosexuality, I will argue THAT. Can't pick and choose depending on my rebuttal.

    The sensations generated leading up to and during intercourse are designed to be stimulated by heterosexual, penis to vagina, intercourse.
    Really? Can I have a quote from the designer on this?

    To stimulate these same sensations outside of normal intercourse, actions must be taken to "artificially" stimulate these areas. Sexual activities other than penis to vagina intercourse do this in manners I like to think of as varying from the norm. Such activities are normal out to a certain "range" and then become less or abnormal. (I fully understand that this last bit is my own theory)
    Yes, it is your own theory and deals with teh word "normal" which is as problematic as the word "natural". None of this, however, addresses my point about the biological component that is exclusive to heterosexuality.

    Also, the male and female body are designed to fit together for sexual reproduction. The male body is not designed to fit the male body for intercourse, likewise with females. In fact, the anus is the most dangerous place on the human body to "explore". The delicacy of the skin of the anus combined with the lack of natural production of lubrication and the heightened levels of bacterias makes anal sex a down right risky venture.

    Firstly, again, I need a quote from the designer that justifies your position on this. Secondly, sexual reproduction is not the only reason for sexual intercourse. Thirdly, you are talking about sexual behaviors... behaviors that are also performed by heterosexuals, so equating anal sex to homosexuals is irrelevant, both because it is a behavior, not an orientation and because it is not exclusive to gays. And lastly, I already posted that procreation is a separate issue from sexual orientation.

    Understanding my point of view relies on an acceptance of "normal intercourse". Many are unwilling to accept that idea, but if the type of intercourse our bodies are designed to engage in is not the basis for this, then there simply is no basis and it relies solely on opinion.
    I understand your point of view. I do not accept it because of all the reasons I have outlined.
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I support gay marriage being legal, but there is no Constitutional basis for forcing it to be legal and forcing states to recognize gay marriage.
    There's no constitutional basis for it to be illegal actually. The 14th amendment is quite clear. This shouldn't even be an issue - whether or not someone thinks what others do or feel is icky is not grounds to deny them equal rights.
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    It comes down to conformity to traditional norms and teleological reasoning of the design of human sexual function.

    These are acceptable opinions in regards to opposing homosexuality. Albeit, they are weak. Norms are constantly changing and humans engage in all sorts of sexual behaviors that do not serve the purpose of procreation, such as oral sex and masturbation.

    However, an individual who claims a conservative political orientation is interested in maintaining a status quo, and thus by definition is resistant to changes in societal norms or to behaviors which deviate from the "natural" design.

    Given that I value individuality, personal freedom, and fairness, I will never understand this value of homogenizing human behavior to a group or religious expectation in the interest of "purity" or "sacredness". Religious beliefs are certainly interesting and live up to Marx's claim that they are the "opiate of the masses". They seem useful in creating a group cohesion similar to the eusocial order of some animals, highly organized and respective to a hierarchy.

    As such, what it ultimately comes down to is that I do not respect an authority that the conformists do respect. In the case of Christians, it is typically the Biblical God.

    It's strange, but you really can compare conservative Christians to the drones of ant colonies or bee hives. They follow a respective order, they have an established role with specific duties, and their ultimate purpose it to serve the Queen, the highest authority, who they are suppose to follow with absolute faith. Any bee or ant that does not follow the Queen, or does not live within the order of the colony or hive, or behaves in a way that is contrary to the established norms, is considered a sinner. Nonconformity is the greatest sin, it is an act of pride or temptation.

    I can see why Ayn Rand is considered by some to be the mother of the new conservative tradition. She valued nonconformity, enlightened self interest, and individual expression. Her breed of conservatism is in direct contrast to the religious breed.

    Lots of interesting thoughts.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 03-17-11 at 12:52 AM.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    There's no constitutional basis for it to be illegal actually. The 14th amendment is quite clear. This shouldn't even be an issue - whether or not someone thinks what others do or feel is icky is not grounds to deny them equal rights.
    The Constitution is silent when it comes to things like marriage. It doesn't go pro or con and leaves it up to the states. The Equal Rights Amendment was something that would have forced gay marriage to be legal Constitutionally. The amendment made it illegal to discriminate between men and women and that everyone of every gender should be equal. However, opponents brought up valid points that under the amendment it would be unconstitutional to ban men in women's bathrooms and visa versa. It would also force women to sign up for the selective service because it would be unequal for men to be the only ones that have to. If that amendment had passed then yes, gay marriage would be Constitutionally legal (as it would make it illegal to prevent a woman from being defined as a husband and a male being allowed to be defined as a wife). I agree that homosexuals should be allowed to enter into their own marriage contracts with each other, however the Constitution doesn't force it, it's silent regarding the issue. The amendment that would have forced it to be discrimination failed to be ratified.
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    To Mac: If homosexuality is truly a choice and therefore SSM should not be covered under equal protection (as it seems your argument has become) would you endeavor to prove it by choosing to be gay for a day?

    It doesn't mean you have to have sex with a man or anything, but simply choose to find men attractive and women entirely unappealing.

    If you do this, then you will prove your case. If you attempt this and fail, that would be substantial evidence that you are incorrect. Don't worry, afterward you can choose to be heterosexual again, as if homosexuality is a choice, then so must heterosexuality, bisexuality, etc. etc.
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Also, as someone who has seen firsthand the horrors gay students go through (my father taught a guy who was beaten into a coma for being gay) why do they not simply choose to be straight, as it would make their lives vastly easier.

    The closest thing to this that I know of is a guy who went to my high school that was gay but highly religious, so chose not to act on his homosexual urges. I found out a few months ago that he committed suicide during his freshman year of college. I guess he sure was dumb for not choosing to be straight, huh?
    “The more you know, the harder it is to take decisive action. Once you become informed, you start seeing complexities and shades of gray. You realize that nothing is as clear and simple as it first appears. Ultimately, knowledge is paralyzing.” - Bill Watterson
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    And the ones screaming for Government involvement in everything don't want it in their bedroom....what's the difference?
    The difference is that we aren't the ones claiming to be "conservative"
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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