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Thread: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

  1. #251
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    There's so much attitude in this thread, I can't even function. But I like watching...
    Eh, I've seen much worse. I might disagree with him on some things but mac is a good guy who is at least worth a back-and-forth unlike some other crazies around here...
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  2. #252
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I mentioned this already, but I think the global dominance of Christianity and Islam (and I don't know about Islam, but we all know about the passages in both the Old and New Testaments that supposedly condemn homosexuality) definitely have a lot to do with it.
    I find it difficult to believe that something as fundamental as intercourse could have been nearly stomped out be a religion if it were truly seen as normal, natural, and/or moral.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Eh, I've seen much worse. I might disagree with him on some things but mac is a good guy who is at least worth a back-and-forth unlike some other crazies around here...
    I've seen worse to and I've been in worse and agree about mac, he seems like a genuinely good guy...I just like the attitude that mac and CT are throwing each other. It's the fun kind not the infuriating kind.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Eh, I've seen much worse. I might disagree with him on some things but mac is a good guy who is at least worth a back-and-forth unlike some other crazies around here...
    He spent an entire thread lying to us, telling us he was going to provide us with a special definition of "natural" that would explain how nature could be used to expalin the immorality of homosexuality. Now he is skirting the same way with the word "normal". He may be a good guy, but he is not an honest debater.

  5. #255
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I find it difficult to believe that something as fundamental as intercourse could have been nearly stomped out be a religion if it were truly seen as normal, natural, and/or moral.
    Tell it to Catholic preists and nuns.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I find it difficult to believe that something as fundamental as intercourse could have been nearly stomped out be a religion if it were truly seen as normal, natural, and/or moral.
    I guess you and I just have different perspectives about just how powerful an influence religion can have on both society as a whole, and the mind of the individual. Not just religion, but the process of growing up and being socialized in general really shapes how people behave and the things they believe.

    Edit: I'm talking about European history for the past several millenia, in which the Church was the dominant institution in society and secular societies didn't really exist. The same could be said about Islam and the Islamic world.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 03-14-11 at 02:41 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  7. #257
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    We are food for whom?
    Anything that can eat us.



    We are talking about morality.
    No we aren't.


    The morality behind what is normal and abnormal concerning homosexuality.
    No, morality is an entirely different issue. We're talking about what is normal/abnormal and the consistency of normalcy/abnormalacy.

    You are attempting to show that because something has once been abnormal and is now normal that there is no defense of thinking something to be abnormal.
    I was actually pointing out that it's pretty stupid to try and demonize the concept of making the abnormal normal because almost every action a person holds sacred was once viewed as abnormal.

    People can think that something is abnormal all they want. Some things are abnormal.

    But demonizing the idea of making the abnormal normal is pretty stupid, though, because not everything abnormal is bad, nor is everythign normal good.

    It was once normal in our society to get married and start a family at the age of 13....not only is that not normal now, it is taboo. See, it can go the other way too.
    Considering I actually said that already, I'm not sure where you got the idea that it would be a rebuttal to my points.

  8. #258
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    He spent an entire thread lying to us, telling us he was going to provide us with a special definition of "natural" that would explain how nature could be used to expalin the immorality of homosexuality. Now he is skirting the same way with the word "normal". He may be a good guy, but he is not an honest debater.
    I took a day to define my view of natural (not a special view) as I was asked to do by a participant in the conversation. I did that. There was no lie there, except for the fact that If I call the sky blue, you call it a lie.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I find it difficult to believe that something as fundamental as intercourse could have been nearly stomped out be a religion if it were truly seen as normal, natural, and/or moral.
    Well, when it's a minority position, and the punishment for it is death, and you're looking at the dark ages, you really shouldn't find much difficulty with it. Especially considering the amount of power the church had.

    Any thoughts on its prevalence in more advanced societies?
    “The more you know, the harder it is to take decisive action. Once you become informed, you start seeing complexities and shades of gray. You realize that nothing is as clear and simple as it first appears. Ultimately, knowledge is paralyzing.” - Bill Watterson
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  10. #260
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    Well, when it's a minority position, and the punishment for it is death, and you're looking at the dark ages, you really shouldn't find much difficulty with it. Especially considering the amount of power the church had.

    Any thoughts on its prevalence in more advanced societies?
    That makes sense in a place where it wasn't so widespread. In Greece it was commonplace by some accounts, perceived as as natural and acceptable as heterosexuality.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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