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Thread: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

  1. #151
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    That's true. That's what we're doing in this thread after all. Trying to use logic in an attempt to determine whether homosexuality and gay marriage are moral/immoral, depending on which side you're on.
    And my position on that is this: proving that homosexuality is moral/immoral is easy from a relative standpoint, but has zero bearing on the issue of the acceptance of homosexuals from a legal standpoint. That is why I almost never debate morality and go after those who do. Morality has a place in forming your opinions, but no place in PROVING your position.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  2. #152
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    That's true. That's what we're doing in this thread after all. Trying to use logic in an attempt to determine whether homosexuality and gay marriage are moral/immoral, depending on which side you're on.
    Standard questions to ask someone arguing against homosexuality, gay rights, or gay marriage:

    1) Define "normal".
    2) Explain the difference between sexual orientation and sexual behavior.
    3) Name things that heterosexuals CAN do that homosexuals can NOT do.
    4) Define the term "disorder".
    5) How does homosexuality affect you?
    6) What causes someone to be heterosexual? Homosexual?

    Few people get past these questions in one piece. Most get tripped up by the first two. I've been doing this debate at DP for nearly 6 years. If you use the guideline questions above, very few folks can really put up a fight.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #153
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Standard questions to ask someone arguing against homosexuality, gay rights, or gay marriage:

    1) Define "normal".
    2) Explain the difference between sexual orientation and sexual behavior.
    3) Name things that heterosexuals CAN do that homosexuals can NOT do.
    4) Define the term "disorder".
    5) How does homosexuality affect you?
    6) What causes someone to be heterosexual? Homosexual?

    Few people get past these questions in one piece. Most get tripped up by the first two. I've been doing this debate at DP for nearly 6 years. If you use the guideline questions above, very few folks can really put up a fight.
    A more relevant point would be to ask them how an abnormal behavior makes it immoral (in other words, wrong, or evil, etc.)
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  4. #154
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    A more relevant point would be to ask them how an abnormal behavior makes it immoral (in other words, wrong, or evil, etc.)
    Nah, I just go after the "normal/abnormal" definition and dismiss any references to morality. They can believe it's immoral all they want. That has no bearing on the global logic surrounding legal actions.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #155
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    It's pretty easy to prove morality to be illogical just by understanding how logical fallacies work. The logic in morality is how one arrives at their OWN moral positions. THAT may be logical, but it is only relatively logical, not globally.
    Let's make sure we aren't confusing social mores with morality, here.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Let's make sure we aren't confusing social mores with morality, here.
    One's individual morality may be arrived at in a logical way... but that logic is entirely relative to that individual. I can demonstrate, from my own moral logic, why pedophiles should be killed... and I bet someone could demonstrate the opposite from their own moral logic. Attempting to use this morality to PROVE that pedophiles should be killed in a logical debate about this would be fraught with logical fallacies.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #157
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Standard questions to ask someone arguing against homosexuality, gay rights, or gay marriage:

    1) Define "normal".
    2) Explain the difference between sexual orientation and sexual behavior.
    3) Name things that heterosexuals CAN do that homosexuals can NOT do.
    4) Define the term "disorder".
    5) How does homosexuality affect you?
    6) What causes someone to be heterosexual? Homosexual?

    Few people get past these questions in one piece. Most get tripped up by the first two. I've been doing this debate at DP for nearly 6 years. If you use the guideline questions above, very few folks can really put up a fight.
    I'll definitely keep those 6 things in mind, I tried logically going through them in my mind from the oppositions point of view and realized there's no real way to answer all of them without contradicting yourself or realizing your argument makes no sense.
    And well, if all else fails, defer to Louis CK

    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

  8. #158
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Morality without logic is ignorance.
    No it is not. Morality does not rely on logic.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I beg to differ.
    Ok, how do you differ?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Actually it's generally theorized that law, religion, etiquette, and morality all overlap to create the societies code of conduct and that none of the four exist independently or can exist without an interdependence.
    So are you really trying to say that you can't have laws without religion? There is no reason for religion to have anything to do with laws in a nation that is secular. Religion has little if any place within our laws because the moment we place religion into our laws, you open up the possibility that a single religious viewpoint could force others by law to not be allowed to practice or you use religion alone to deny rights to others. Rights should only be denied to others when they actually will cause some quantifiable harm (tangible is not the right word, although I know I used it earlier).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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