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Thread: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

  1. #141
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Morality without logic is ignorance.
    Morality without proof of logic is faith.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Actually, I agree with him. I can believe something is moral, even if it is illogical to do so. Doesn't mean I have the right to place those beliefs on anyone else, but they do not have to be proven logical for me to believe them.
    I guess it's a matter of perspective them. Morality for me, personally, is based on logic. Could you give any examples of things or behaviors you believe to be both moral and illogical at the same time?
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  3. #143
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Logic usually has very little to do with morality, and as such doesn't necessarily need to be defined logically.
    Actually, Morality has EVERYTHING to do with logic, since it is moral reasoning that provides the basis for such.

    Moral Reasoning (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I guess it's a matter of perspective them. Morality for me, personally, is based on logic. Could you give any examples of things or behaviors you believe to be both moral and illogical at the same time?
    I believe in God. I cannot prove that God exists, therefore I have no logical proof for His existence.

    I believe that pedophiles should be killed. The lack of logic in this is that it is an appeal to emotion.

    Things like this.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #145
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I believe in God. I cannot prove that God exists, therefore I have no logical proof for His existence.

    I believe that pedophiles should be killed. The lack of logic in this is that it is an appeal to emotion.

    Things like this.
    Yeah I guess it's a matter or perspective then. Gardener's post is a perfect example of why I think you can't separate morality from logic.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  6. #146
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Yeah I guess it's a matter or perspective then. Gardener's post is a perfect example of why I think you can't separate morality from logic.
    It's pretty easy to prove morality to be illogical just by understanding how logical fallacies work. The logic in morality is how one arrives at their OWN moral positions. THAT may be logical, but it is only relatively logical, not globally.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #147
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    It's pretty easy to prove morality to be illogical just by understanding how logical fallacies work. The logic in morality is how one arrives at their OWN moral positions. THAT may be logical, but it is only relatively logical, not globally.
    That's true. That's what we're doing in this thread after all. Trying to use logic in an attempt to determine whether homosexuality and gay marriage are moral/immoral, depending on which side you're on.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  8. #148
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Also... notice. The best way to get someone who is anti-gay to run away is ask them to define "normal". The only one who dared to answer is mac, and I wouldn't necessarily define him as anti-gay, though he argues some of the points on that side of the issue.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #149
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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Actually it's generally theorized that law, religion, etiquette, and morality all overlap to create the societies code of conduct and that none of the four exist independently or can exist without an interdependence.
    Law may have been formed with the influence of religion and morality, but it can certainly exist and be maintained without them.

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    Re: Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Also... notice. The best way to get someone who is anti-gay to run away is ask them to define "normal". The only one who dared to answer is mac, and I wouldn't necessarily define him as anti-gay, though he argues some of the points on that side of the issue.
    That's perhaps one of the first questions someone should ask him/herself when they're deciding their position on homosexuality. Otherwise they haven't even gotten around to thinking critically about the issue yet.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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