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PJ Crowley: Bradley Manning's treatment by US 'stupid'

Jetboogieman said:
But again, you had no hesitation in using a news story to harm the US government, part of which is the Obama administration.

Why condemn wikileaks selectively? I mean surely it's all bad or it's all good...

And Wikileaks has not only targeted the US for information leaks...

In fact I would argue that its leaks on Chinese and North Korean relations had a positive impact on Pyongyangs behaviour. I haven't heard a peep from them since the artillery.

I'm yanking your chain a little bit here V. It's been nice to spar.

(Script is great)
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I know oyu are, if I thought you were being a troll twerp I'd of just ignored you ;)
 
MrVicchio said:
I know oyu are, if I thought you were being a troll twerp I'd of just ignored you ;)
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I think Manning's actions are morally ambiguous, so it's hard to judge. On the one hand, some argue that his actions provided some transparency into the workings of the government when it comes to foreign policy, something that many people think the gov't should be held more accountable for (and transparency is one way to achieve that accountability). On the other hand, some argue that the info he released endangers the troops and damages our diplomatic relations. I don't think it's a black-and-white, either-or type of thing.

I will say however that he knew what he was getting into when he signed a contract to enlist in the Army. His actions were clearly a crime of gross proportions, and he breached the contract he signed with his employer, and the oath he took to defend the country. I have no sympathy for his whining. He knew full well what he was doing and he should suffer the consequences.
 
Andalublue said:
PJ Crowley - Bradley Manning - BBC

Is the treatment of him reasonable? Clearly the White House doesn't believe so. Is it intended to be punitive, preventive or aimed at ensuring he is totally isolated from the outside world? Is it overkill given the absence of threat he now constitutes.
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Americans demonstrate their intellectual hypocrisy and spiritual bankruptcy each day they tolerate their government's treatment of Bradley Manning. It is a stain on our honor and a reminder that in this nation's legal system based on the presumption of innocence we are not fit caretakers of that great legacy.
 
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Liberals have found another reason to be angry with President Obama: the ouster of P.J. Crowley, the State Department spokesman who announced his resignation Sunday after criticizing the Pentagon for its treatment of the WikiLeaks case suspect Private Bradley Manning.

Jane Hamsher, one of Obama’s consistent antagonists at the liberal blog FireDogLake, which probably most epitomizes former White House press secretary Robert Gibbs’s epithet “the professional left,” is leading the charge. She wrote Monday in support of a protest against Manning’s treatment and Crowley’s firing with a march from the State Department to the White House. “With his firing of Crowley, Obama makes a mockery of his own claim to be a constitutional scholar who supports transparency in government,” Hamsher wrote.

“Other than Obama's tolerance for the same detainee abuse against which he campaigned and his ongoing subservience to the military that he supposedly ‘commands,’ ” wrote Salon’s Glenn Greenwald. “It is the way in which this Manning/Crowley behavior bolsters the regime of secrecy and the President's obsessive attempts to destroy whistle blowing that makes this episode so important and so telling.”

Crowley’s firing has reinforced liberal distaste of an iteration of Obama’s “no-drama” philosophy, which some believe has resulted in the entrenchment of secrecy in the federal government. And they have long complained about his retreat from the strongest ideological positions he took in the 2008 campaign, particularly against Bush-era torture and the closing of Guantanamo Bay. “I think this is wrong,” wrote Ta-Nehisi Coates on his blog at the Atlantic. “And it's very hard for me to believe that, circa 2006, Senator Obama wouldn't say as much.”

On Sunday, Andrew Sullivan declared that Obama “owns the treatment of Manning now.” “By firing PJ Crowley for the offense of protesting against the sadistic military treatment of Bradley Manning, the president has now put his personal weight behind prisoner abuse,” Sullivan wrote. “The man who once said that forced nudity was a form of torture, now takes the word of those enforcing it over a distinguished public servant.” Attendees at the MIT seminar on Thursday where Crowley called the military's treatment of Manning "ridiculous and counterproductive and stupid" have written a letter to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton expressing "severe disappointment" about the spokesman’s abrupt resignation.
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Left unites behind Crowley | POLITICO 44
 
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SE102 said:
He's no threat to anyone for any reason, I don't see why they have to guantanamize him. He may leak in your face though and shatter whatever little nationalistic political reality you believe in. Which is probably a threat to national security.



Someone needs to put a round of library books in your grape.
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Ah yes, treason is so cool, eh?
 
Andalublue said:
PJ Crowley - Bradley Manning - BBC

Is the treatment of him reasonable? Clearly the White House doesn't believe so. Is it intended to be punitive, preventive or aimed at ensuring he is totally isolated from the outside world? Is it overkill given the absence of threat he now constitutes.
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He is a traitor and on suicide watch. The treatment he is receiving is not reasonable. he deserves the same thing the Rosenbergs got.
 
Erod said:
Funny how "leftist" and "traitor" becomes more synonymous by the day.
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Funny hows "conservative" and "over the top rhetoric" go together so much better every day.
 
jamesrage said:
He is a traitor and on suicide watch. The treatment he is receiving is not reasonable. he deserves the same thing the Rosenbergs got.
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I'm sure some of you think he is a traitor, but I think that revealing information showing the American people that their government was lying to them could be argued to be the very opposite of treason. Treason is revealing the identity of your secret service agents and getting US agents in the field killed, but apparently your judiciary doesn't believe so.
 
Andalublue said:
I'm sure some of you think he is a traitor, but I think that revealing information showing the American people that their government was lying to them could be argued to be the very opposite of treason. Treason is revealing the identity of your secret service agents and getting US agents in the field killed, but apparently your judiciary doesn't believe so.
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There is a process for revealing potential issues such as this that include strong safeguards for the whistleblower. Manning did not use these methods. Further, at best a small portion of the released material involved such possible lies. By going the route he did, he brought the charges on himself.
 
jamesrage said:
He is a traitor and on suicide watch. The treatment he is receiving is not reasonable. he deserves the same thing the Rosenbergs got.
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What I find interesting is that the people who are complaining about his treatment are the same ones who would complain if he came to harm by not taking these safeguards with him.
 
MSNBC's Dylan Ratigan admitted that the left is scared to criticize Obama over Manning's treatment because it is a liberal black Democratic president. They even discussed the fact that he isn't criticized about Gitmo either. I think this is wonderful development.

 
Redress said:
There is a process for revealing potential issues such as this that include strong safeguards for the whistleblower. Manning did not use these methods. Further, at best a small portion of the released material involved such possible lies. By going the route he did, he brought the charges on himself.
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Indeed. rather he released indiscriminately any and everything he could get his hands on including which foreign leaders and governments we didnt trust. he will be tried based on the military laws he is accused of violating. Eventually I assume he will be sentenced and people that are up in arms about him today will go back to not giving a damn about him tomorrow, just like they did yesterday.
 
Marshabar said:
MSNBC's Dylan Ratigan admitted that the left is scared to criticize Obama over Manning's treatment because it is a liberal black Democratic president. They even discussed the fact that he isn't criticized about Gitmo either. I think this is wonderful development.

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Well, that clip gives the lie to itself, doesn't it? Weren't those two liberal commentators openly and vociferously criticising a black, liberal president? The cartoon presenter (or was it a real right-winger, couldn't tell) said that telling the truth is "a gaffe". Well, probably only in right-wing circles.

I think they were right to an extent, that some of those who should be holding him to account, aren't doing so. But clearly others are. I'm hearing a lot of opinions over here in Europe that are expressing disappointment that Obama is proving to be such an insipid president. He appears to have little grasp of foreign policy and diplomacy (mind you, more than his predecessor) and other than his health reforms, he doesn't appear to be stamping his mark on domestic US politics either. The Gitmo back-down is disgraceful and in this Manning issue he is being either disingenuous or willfully negligent. "Some of it has to do with his safety." Would that be the shackles he's wearing 24/7?
 
Andalublue said:
Well, that clip gives the lie to itself, doesn't it? Weren't those two liberal commentators openly and vociferously criticising a black, liberal president? The cartoon presenter (or was it a real right-winger, couldn't tell) said that telling the truth is "a gaffe". Well, probably only in right-wing circles.

I think they were right to an extent, that some of those who should be holding him to account, aren't doing so. But clearly others are. I'm hearing a lot of opinions over here in Europe that are expressing disappointment that Obama is proving to be such an insipid president. He appears to have little grasp of foreign policy and diplomacy (mind you, more than his predecessor) and other than his health reforms, he doesn't appear to be stamping his mark on domestic US politics either. The Gitmo back-down is disgraceful and in this Manning issue he is being either disingenuous or willfully negligent. "Some of it has to do with his safety." Would that be the shackles he's wearing 24/7?
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Would your country take the Gitmo detainees? Spain has its own problems.....I've been there.

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Would your country take the Gitmo detainees? Spain has its own problems.....I've been there.

j-mac
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I believe it has taken four of them. I know the UK has too, and Germany. Every country has its problems, so what?
 
Andalublue said:
I believe it has taken four of them. I know the UK has too, and Germany. Every country has its problems, so what?
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Wow, a whole four? How in the world can you manage? And how much did your government over there soak us for the privilage of sending four of them there? What did your country do with them? Do you know where they are?

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Wow, a whole four? How in the world can you manage? And how much did your government over there soak us for the privilage of sending four of them there? What did your country do with them? Do you know where they are?

j-mac
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Crawley's been fired, Manning is still being hung up by his ankles every night, and all is right with the world.
 
over the top rhetoric?

representatives of the "professional left," according to politico today (link above):

“with his firing of crowley, obama makes a mockery of his own claim to be a constitutional scholar who supports transparency in government"

“other than obama's tolerance for the same detainee abuse against which he campaigned and his ongoing subservience to the military that he supposedly ‘commands,’ it is the way in which this manning/crowley behavior bolsters the regime of secrecy and the president's obsessive attempts to destroy whistle blowing that makes this episode so important and so telling”

"i think this is wrong, and it's very hard for me to believe that, circa 2006, senator obama wouldn't say as much”

obama “owns the treatment of manning now"

"by firing pj crowley for the offense of protesting against the sadistic military treatment of bradley manning, the president has now put his personal weight behind prisoner abuse"

"the man who once said that forced nudity was a form of torture now takes the word of those enforcing it over a distinguished public servant”
 
j-mac said:
Wow, a whole four? How in the world can you manage? And how much did your government over there soak us for the privilage of sending four of them there? What did your country do with them? Do you know where they are?

j-mac
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Jeez, you could show some gratitude. You captured them, if you resent paying for them to be relocated, keep 'em yourselves. I've no idea where they are, nor do I need to. I'm sure the authorities will be keeping an eye on them if they need keeping an eye on.
 
jamesrage said:
He is a traitor and on suicide watch. The treatment he is receiving is not reasonable. he deserves the same thing the Rosenbergs got.
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You forgot to click your boot heels together.:screwy
 
Kane said:
Brad was trying to save the lives of fellow soldiers and civillians by exposing the corruption involved in US foreign policy.

He is a hero.
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a bit of info for the people in this thread gung ho for punishment ...

"Crowley was the face and voice of the Obama administration on the full-range of diplomatic issues and is a former Air Force colonel."



Protesters demonstrate in support of WikiLeaks suspect Manning

Protesters demonstrate in support of WikiLeaks suspect Manning - CNN.com

t1larg.protestors.support.wikileaks.gi.jpg
 
Kane said:
a bit of info for the people in this thread gung ho for punishment ...

"Crowley was the face and voice of the Obama administration on the full-range of diplomatic issues and is a former Air Force colonel."



Protesters demonstrate in support of WikiLeaks suspect Manning

Protesters demonstrate in support of WikiLeaks suspect Manning - CNN.com

t1larg.protestors.support.wikileaks.gi.jpg
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Nothing you said in any way addressed any point made. All you managed to do is prove that people will rally for stupid things, which we already knew following Beck's rally last year.
 
Redress said:
Nothing you said in any way addressed any point made. All you managed to do is prove that people will rally for stupid things, which we already knew following Beck's rally last year.
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U Cal Berkeley...class of 1968. Damn...it must suck to be a rebel without a clue.
 
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