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Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

The Prof said:
even tho you and your friends post so often, odd

maybe if you linked more you'd have more credibility

either way, it appears you have lots of work to do

good luck
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i gather from your post the intent to wave the white flag of surrender

in recognition that my cite and its provided statistics rendered your argument beyond foolish

delighted to have helped. you're welcome
 
hazlnut said:
I believe the bigots and xenophobes dubbed it the 'Ground Zero Mosque'. Perhaps you were out of the country when Fox News was scaring viewers with that boogey man. They've moved on to NPR now.
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No, the far lefties dubbed the mosque, a rec center. :)
 
justabubba said:
i gather from your post the intent to wave the white flag of surrender

in recognition that my cite and its provided statistics rendered your argument beyond foolish
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No, it is you who have raised the white flag of surrender.

"but we have not seen that. our congress has chosen to publicly criticize the muslim community. and be assured, such action does not bode well for us in the muslim community of the middle east and elsewhere. such actions only serve to validate for them the fatwas issued by osama bin forgotten, which describe the USA as being opposed to things muslim"

It is you who are so fearful of Muslims and fatwas that you worry about having an inquiry into Islamism in the United States. That is preemptive surrender. This is why the Muslims have so many people everywhere spooked. Terrorism works, and you are good evidence of that.
 
hazlnut said:
I would say a protest is legitimate when those involved have a grasp on the facts and reality.
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And who might you be to judge reality? In fact since my appearing here at DP I don't think I have ever seen you fully grounded in such a concept.

Otherwise, it's just impotent rage.
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Well, you would know.

Case in point--fear and paranoia drummed up by right-wing media only succeeds in dividing people.
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Oh, you mean the way that liberal media, (which is nearly all of it) did with WI? I see.

j-mac
 
Grant said:
No, it is you who have raised the white flag of surrender.

"but we have not seen that. our congress has chosen to publicly criticize the muslim community. and be assured, such action does not bode well for us in the muslim community of the middle east and elsewhere. such actions only serve to validate for them the fatwas issued by osama bin forgotten, which describe the USA as being opposed to things muslim"

It is you who are so fearful of Muslims and fatwas that you worry about having an inquiry into Islamism in the United States. That is preemptive surrender. This is why the Muslims have so many people everywhere spooked. Terrorism works, and you are good evidence of that.
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Most of us want inquiries into terrorism - Islam is not the same thing.
 
theplaydrive said:
Most of us want inquiries into terrorism - Islam is not the same thing.
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But when the terrorism is based upon Islam, one needs to address both to be able to understand its nature.
 
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theplaydrive said:
Most of us want inquiries into terrorism - Islam is not the same thing.
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So you believe there have been no links between Islam and terrorism in recent years?

Perhaps you want to change whatever media you've subscribbed to. There's actually been quite a lot of terrorism with links to Islam. Really.
 
Gardener said:
But when the terrorism is based upon Islam, one needs to address both to be able to understand its nature.
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I disagree. We need to study how al-Qaeda uses Islam as a tool to recruit members. A study of Islam is not necessary because it is not the foundation of terrorism. The desire to get the United States off of the Persian Gulf is the foundation - most scholars of suicide terrorism generally agree on this after extensive studies on al-Qaeda that its members are motivated by political reasons more than religious ones.

I honestly think everyone in America should read this book:
Amazon.com: Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism (9781400063178): Robert Pape: Books

It's written by a professor who has done the most comprehensive examination of all suicide terrorism, including al-Qaeda.
 
Travelsonic said:
1. IMO the term "ground zero mosque," saying AT or ON [as opposed to near] ground zero, etc is blatantly misleading, can/does lead to skewed poll results.
2. Who cares? The right to exercise one's religious practice peacefully [even if in a distasteful but legal fashion] isn't decided by majority rule.
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All the posts and interviews I saw on the subject, everyone agreed they had the "right" to build there. The question was, why was it so important to build there in a place where so many Americans were against it. It sure wasn't to reach out and assimilate with non-Muslims as they said. If that was the reason they would have been willing to move it when they found how hurtful it was going to be in that location.
 
theplaydrive said:
I disagree. We need to study how al-Qaeda uses Islam as a tool to recruit members. A study of Islam is not necessary because it is not the foundation of terrorism. The desire to get the United States off of the Persian Gulf is the foundation - most scholars of suicide terrorism generally agree on this after extensive studies on al-Qaeda that its members are motivated by political reasons more than religious ones.

I honestly think everyone in America should read this book:
Amazon.com: Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism (9781400063178): Robert Pape: Books

It's written by a professor who has done the most comprehensive examination of all suicide terrorism, including al-Qaeda.
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Yes, yes Pape was mentioned earlier....So one liberal prof from Chicago says this and you instantly fall for it as gospel? whew, talk about easily led.


j-mac
 
Grant said:
So you believe there have been no links between Islam and terrorism in recent years?

Perhaps you want to change whatever media you've subscribbed to. There's actually been quite a lot of terrorism with links to Islam. Really.
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The leading organization for suicide terrorism is the Tamil Tigers, they aren't Muslim. In fact, they hate Muslims.

Relative to the U.S., yes, terrorism is mostly linked to Islam. What you are failing to understand or acknowledge, however, is that Muslim terrorists do not attack because of Islam, they attack because of political motivations (i.e. they want the U.S. to get the **** off of their territory).
 
j-mac said:
Yes, yes Pape was mentioned earlier....So one liberal prof from Chicago says this and you instantly fall for it as gospel? whew, talk about easily led.


j-mac
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Robert Pape is a Republican/Libertarian.

He was named Ron Paul's foreign policy advisor during the 2008 elections. The reason he supported Ron Paul was because Paul wanted to end American intervention in the Middle East. You just proved that you have no interest in examining other people's ideas and no interest in the truth.

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20080207006261&newsLang=en
 
Gardener said:
But when the terrorism is based upon Islam, one needs to address both to be able to understand its nature.
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then you could not be opposed to a congressional inquiry about the jewish government of israel and the terrorism it projects. you will soon be reminded of your above quote in another forum area
 
justabubba said:
you're welcome
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don't you find it sad that 2/3 of americans, including half the members of his own party, don't believe their president on something as personal and private as what he says is his own faith

i hear millions of your neighbors aren't convinced he was even born in the usa

how'd potus get himself in so peculiar a spot

oh well, keep posting your opinions, they're powerful

you're sure to get thru in time
 
theplaydrive said:
The leading organization for suicide terrorism is the Tamil Tigers, they aren't Muslim. In fact, they hate Muslims.
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The war between the Sri Lankan Government and the Tamil Tigers is pretty much restricted to Sri Lanka and has had little comparative impact on the international community. Islamists, on the other hand, have committed terrorism everywhere, including against other Muslims. Have you any understanding why the Tamil Tigers "hate" Muslims?
Relative to the U.S., yes, terrorism is mostly linked to Islam.
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And that's why we are talking about the US and Islamic terrorism, not the Tamil Tigers.

What you are failing to understand or acknowledge, however, is that Muslim terrorists do not attack because of Islam, they attack because of political motivations (i.e. they want the U.S. to get the **** off of their territory
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Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the Koran, or that many Muslims are shouting "Allah Akbar" while they are murdering innocent people. Who told you that it is all about wanting the US off their territory?? If that was the case why would Islamic terrorism be international? They are killing people on every continent, with the exception perhaps of the Antarctica. And if Islamic terrorists want Americans off "their territory", would the democracies be right by murdering Muslims on "their territory"?

Because Islamic terrorists have killed many Americans in the United States, and have attempted to kill many more, the government is doing what it is supposed to do, which is to investigate how and why it is happening and what possible actions might be taken to prevent further acts of terrorism. The Muslim community should certainly understand this.
 
theplaydrive said:
Robert Pape is a Republican/Libertarian.

He was named Ron Paul's foreign policy advisor during the 2008 elections. The reason he supported Ron Paul was because Paul wanted to end American intervention in the Middle East. You just proved that you have no interest in examining other people's ideas and no interest in the truth.

Suicide Terrorism Expert Professor Robert Pape Named Ron Paul 2008 Foreign Policy Advisor
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Ron Paul....Hmmmm. Wasn't he wooing a lot of students to his side in '08 by claiming that America was at fault for the attacks on 9/11?

Blaming America first will not do the trick it seems.....lol.

j-mac
 
justabubba said:
clearly, you don't 'get' it
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Clearly your changing the subject. You asked Vance to provide information of a similar hearing - I stepped in and provided that information. There was a need at the time, congressional meetings were held, laws were passed, and you were proven wrong.

Now, let's get back to the issue at hand...

justabubba said:
it was a hearing about islam and why its members are not preventing terrorists from developing within the practitioners of that faith
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Wrong. I addressed this in Post #89 as to what this hearing was about, and King identified it up front in the first 20 seconds of the hearing. If you wish to continue to provide misinformation about the purpose and goal of the congressional meeting, and cannot honestly address why it was held, I'll continue to correct you.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...-peter-king-republicans-3.html#post1059343066

justabubba said:
if the congress had convened a hearing about the white members of the Christian faith and why the Christians were not preventing KKK members from developing within the membership of that faith, THEN we would have a direct comparable
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The injection of race is irrelevant and ad hominem. Christians are not and have not been strapping bombs on their backs and killing tens of thousands of people - your comparison doesn't have a direct equivilent, and therefore is a red herring.

justabubba said:
but we have not seen that. our congress has chosen to publicly criticize the muslim community.
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Congress has chosen to publicly investigate a very real problem that some, some, are ignoring for political reasons. Gotta keep those minorities votin' for the Democrats, right?

justabubba said:
and be assured, such action does not bode well for us in the muslim community of the middle east and elsewhere. such actions only serve to validate for them the fatwas issued by osama bin forgotten, which describe the USA as being opposed to things muslim
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Meh. Unless one can look at facts honestly and address them, it's all just theater.
 
justabubba said:
then you could not be opposed to a congressional inquiry about the jewish government of israel and the terrorism it projects. you will soon be reminded of your above quote in another forum area
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Sure... have as many congressional inquiries as you want. About Jews, about the Rich, about the cops, FBI, the Pentagon, Military, Democrats, Republicans, Communists, Socialists, TV, Radio, Newspapers... wrong is wrong no matter who does it so when there's a reason to have a hearing to gather information, to publically put people on the record, it's a good thing. Muslims, Islam, Terrorists, non-Terrorists, Sunni, Shia, Jihadists, any and all... :shrug:
 
Grant said:
The war between the Sri Lankan Government and the Tamil Tigers is pretty much restricted to Sri Lanka and has had little comparative impact on the international community. Islamists, on the other hand, have committed terrorism everywhere, including against other Muslims. Have you any understanding why the Tamil Tigers "hate" Muslims?

And that's why we are talking about the US and Islamic terrorism, not the Tamil Tigers.
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Al-Qaeda attacks the United States and its allies, not 'everywhere'. We're talking about the Tamil Tigers because you continue to imply that Islam is the primary factor associated with terrorism, when in fact, it isn't.

Grant said:
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the Koran, or that many Muslims are shouting "Allah Akbar" while they are murdering innocent people. Who told you that it is all about wanting the US off their territory?? If that was the case why would Islamic terrorism be international? They are killing people on every continent, with the exception perhaps of the Antarctica. And if Islamic terrorists want Americans off "their territory", would the democracies be right by murdering Muslims on "their territory"?
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Who told me? No one. Although I showed you a book by the most respected scholar of suicide terrorism who is also a Republican/Libertarian. The fact that you are questioning this argument so vehemently shows that you have done absolutely no research on the subject. This explanation is accepted by scholars and the government. If you don't trust the studies of Republican scholars whose job is to research suicide terrorism, then trust the CIA.

Former CIA analyst Michael Scheuer, who led the CIA's hunt for Osama Bin Laden, states that terrorist attacks-specifically Al Qaeda attacks on America-are not motivated by a religiously-inspired hatred of American culture or religion, but by the belief that U.S. foreign policy has oppressed, killed, or otherwise harmed Muslims in the Middle East,[11] condensed in the phrase "They hate us for what we do, not who we are." U.S. foreign policy actions Scheuer believes are fueling Islamic terror include:

Unconditional US support to Israel
U.S. troops on Muslim 'holy ground' in Saudi Arabia (See: United States withdrawal from Saudi Arabia)
U.S. support for "apostate" police states in Muslim nations such as Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, Algeria, Morocco, and Kuwait[12]
The invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq
U.S. support for the creation of the Christian state of East Timor from territory previously held by Muslim Indonesia.
Perceived U.S. approval or support of counterinsurgency against Muslim insurgents in India, Philippines, Chechnya, Uyghur separatists in western China, Palestine.[13]
Historical justification, such as in the Crusades.
The Western world's religious discrimination against Muslim immigrants.
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Islamic terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grant said:
Because Islamic terrorists have killed many Americans in the United States, and have attempted to kill many more, the government is doing what it is supposed to do, which is to investigate how and why it is happening and what possible actions might be taken to prevent further acts of terrorism. The Muslim community should certainly understand this.
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The government already knows why terrorism is happening. It's been 10 years since 9/11, they've done their investigations; it would be irresponsible of them to have taken this long. You're the one who is behind.
 
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j-mac said:
Ron Paul....Hmmmm. Wasn't he wooing a lot of students to his side in '08 by claiming that America was at fault for the attacks on 9/11?

Blaming America first will not do the trick it seems.....lol.

j-mac
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Former CIA analyst Michael Scheuer, who led the CIA's hunt for Osama Bin Laden, states that terrorist attacks-specifically Al Qaeda attacks on America-are not motivated by a religiously-inspired hatred of American culture or religion, but by the belief that U.S. foreign policy has oppressed, killed, or otherwise harmed Muslims in the Middle East,[11] condensed in the phrase "They hate us for what we do, not who we are." U.S. foreign policy actions Scheuer believes are fueling Islamic terror include:

Unconditional US support to Israel
U.S. troops on Muslim 'holy ground' in Saudi Arabia (See: United States withdrawal from Saudi Arabia)
U.S. support for "apostate" police states in Muslim nations such as Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, Algeria, Morocco, and Kuwait[12]
The invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq
U.S. support for the creation of the Christian state of East Timor from territory previously held by Muslim Indonesia.
Perceived U.S. approval or support of counterinsurgency against Muslim insurgents in India, Philippines, Chechnya, Uyghur separatists in western China, Palestine.[13]
Historical justification, such as in the Crusades.
The Western world's religious discrimination against Muslim immigrants.
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The CIA agrees with Ron Paul.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#Motivations_and_Islamic_terrorism
 
theplaydrive said:
Al-Qaeda attacks the United States and its allies, not 'everywhere'. We're talking about the Tamil Tigers because you continue to imply that Islam is the primary factor associated with terrorism, when in fact, it isn't.
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It is. If you were to ask any knowledgeable person what group today what group is most strongly associated with modern terrorism the answer would most likely be Muslims. Tamil Tigers would be well down the list and I explained why.

Who told me? No one.
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So you just made it up. That was actually quite obvious, and honest of you to admit it.

Although I showed you a book by the most respected scholar of suicide terrorism who is also a Republican/Libertarian. The fact that you are questioning this argument so vehemently shows that you have done absolutely no research on the subject. This explanation is accepted by scholars and the government. If you don't trust the studies of Republican scholars whose job is to research suicide terrorism, then trust the CIA.
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Why should I give any more credibility to "Republican scholars" than I would anyone else? Does he say its all about land, or that the Tamil Tigers are the real terrorists we should be on guard against?

Islamic terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The government already knows why terrorism is happening. It's been 10 years since 9/11, they've done their investigations; it would be irresponsible of them to have taken this long. You're the one who is behind.
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If you were interested in what's happening you would read the links you sent here and you would see it's not all about land, that it is about Islam, alienation, and all of it. Islam is the link between all the excuses for terrorism, no matter what the complaint.
 
Grant said:
It is. If you were to ask any knowledgeable person what group today what group is most strongly associated with modern terrorism the answer would most likely be Muslims. Tamil Tigers would be well down the list and I explained why.
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Islam is not the primary factor in suicide terrorism because the group with most suicide attacks is not Muslim. Islam is the primary factor why Americans are aware of suicide terrorism because of 9/11.

So you just made it up. That was actually quite obvious, and honest of you to admit it.
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No Grant. No one told me because I examined the evidence for myself. And my argument is the exact same argument as the CIA, so it's clear I didn't make it up.

Why should I give any more credibility to "Republican scholars" than I would anyone else? Does he say its all about land, or that the Tamil Tigers are the real terrorists we should be on guard against?
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I don't think you should care. I think you should examine evidence for itself. But apparently you do because you responded to my post on Robert Pape's books about terrorism by claiming that it wasn't valid because he's a liberal (then I showed you he's a conservative).

Islamic terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you were interested in what's happening you would read the links you sent here and you would see it's not all about land, that it is about Islam, alienation, and all of it. Islam is the link between all the excuses for terrorism, no matter what the complaint.
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It's less about me being 'interested in what's happening'. It's the fact that I've studied it and I know what's happening and have read that entire Wikipedia page in addition to the numerous books and articles I have read on the subject.

Honestly Grant. I don't care what the **** you believe. But if you cared, you would put your pride aside and research it more than you have.
 
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