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Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

Ockham said:
Well, if some will go claiming racism, bigotry and xenophobia - I want to make sure who all is being included. Are these 2007 folks included or do they get to opt out because of political ideology?
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Double-down and derailing the thread. Well done!
:applaud
 
Barbbtx said:
You are standing with radical Islam and throwing the moderates under the bus.
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This is precisely the opposite of what I am doing. It is, however, what King is doing. Or rather, he's fulfilling what all the radicals want by making this an clear us vs. them conflict, and he's throwing moderates under the bus by lumping the vast majority of Muslims in with a fringe minority if criminals.

This whole thing is disgusting.
 
Ockham said:
So anyone who doesn't agree with you or who wants to identify terrorists in the United States gets labeled by you as racists, bigots and xenopobic. Got it.
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Nice straw man. In reality, there are plenty of other reasons people might disagree with me. Ignorance for one.

Ockham said:
How is the Tea Party relevant here? King isn't a Tea Party member or supporter and the Tea Party didn't exist as a movement in 2007, therefore that's just another red herring.
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Tea Party, Minutemen, Militia Movement, call it whatever you want. It's a substrate of populism and nativism that is surging in this country right now. I could try to keep the Tea Party identity straight from other brands of racist populism, but why bother?

Ockham said:
I want it too. I want to find out who's wanting to blow other people up, no matter if their muslim, christian, agnostic or any other religion. The more we identify, the better off we'll be.
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If that's what you want, then why not have a hearing on all terrorists, whether they are Muslim, Christian, agnostic, or any other religion? Why go about this task by singling out the Islam specifically and alienating the vast majority of peaceful Muslims while doing so? It is either bigotry(1) or idiocy.
 
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Guy Incognito said:
This is precisely the opposite of what I am doing. It is, however, what King is doing. Or rather, he's fulfilling what all the radicals want by making this an clear us vs. them conflict, and he's throwing moderates under the bus by lumping the vast majority of Muslims in with a fringe minority if criminals.

This whole thing is disgusting.
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No, he is standing WITH the moderates against the radicals. They are being harmed by the radicalization of their young people too.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Nice straw man. In reality, there are plenty of reasons other people might disagree with me. Ignorance for one.
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So set me straight on your labeling of racists, bigots and xenophobes then.

Guy Incognito said:
Tea Party, Minutemen, Militia Movement, call it whatever you want. It's a substrate of populism and nativism that is surging in this country right now. I could try to keep the Tea Party identity straight from other brands of racist populism, but why bother?
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You haven't provided how they are relevant other than it's apparent you don't like them.

Guy Incognito said:
If that's what you want, then why not have a hearing on all terrorists, whether they are Muslim, Christian, agnostic, or any other religion? Why go about this task by singling out the Islam specifically and alienating the vast majority of peaceful Muslims while doing so? It is either bigotry(1) or idiocy.
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Because there's a disproportionate number of terrorists who claim they are muslim. I'll point you to the OTHER thread about this where I outline them:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa...r-king-r-terrorist-backer.html#post1059342156

When there's a disproportionate number of radical Bhuddists, Hari-Krishna's or Agnostics, you can be sure I'll be calling for hearings about them as well.
 
Barbbtx said:
No, he is standing WITH the moderates against the radicals. They are being harmed by the radicalization of their young people too.
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You don't solve the problem of radicalization by attacking the radials themselves. Those are the young people you rightfully want to help. You have to look to the causes of radicalization. Poverty, inequality, overpopulation, oppression, these are the things that lead to radicalization. Any hearing that was truly addressing radicalization would look at those factors, not the "infiltration of America mosques" and that sort of racist claptrap. That is why these hearings ring so false, and smack of racism.
 
The Senate has held hearings on the KKK, on the White Supremacist Movement, on Hawaiian Natives, on Latino gang activity. Why are Muslims sacred cows? Why is it the name that must not be spoken? Why so sensitive?

It's a deflection. CAIR is going down. Get over it.
 
Guy Incognito said:
You don't attack radicalization by attacking the radials themselves. Those are the young people you rightfully want to help. You have to look to the causes of radicalization. Poverty, inequality, overpopulation, oppression, these are the things that lead to radicalization. Any hearing that was truly addressing radicalization would look at those factors, not the "infiltration of America mosques" and that sort of racist claptrap. That is why these hearings ring so false, and smack of racism.
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Again I can agree to some extent with what Guy is saying, though not completely. If radical Islam were all powerful they would be able to brainwash anyone with their ideology. As it turns out, some people are susceptible to their message while others are not. Tackling the religious issue itself is only getting to the surface of the issue, not the root cause. I don't think that inequality overpopulation oppression and those things really explain what is going on, but we have to get at the psychological and social roots about why these kids are becoming radicalized, because not just anyone becomes radicalized, I believe something has to have happened to that individual first (some past experience, their world view, outlook on life, etc.) for them to be actually susceptible to being radicalized.
 
interesting article which opines that this hearing was something other than a "success"

The 6 dumbest things said at Rep. Peter King’s Muslim radicalization hearing | The Raw Story

1) Neo-Nazis don't commit terrorist acts
2) Probing U.S. Muslims is just like probing Nazi war criminals, KKK
3) 'We've surrendered the constitution to the jihadists'
4) 'Most' Muslims just don't understand the Koran!
5) America couldn't possibly ally with Muslim countries
6) Obama isn't 'singling out' Muslims enough

no surprise that a hearing by a congressman who openly supported (IRA) terrorism is full of stupid statements
 
You don't attack radicalization by attacking the radials themselves. Those are the young people you rightfully want to help. You have to look to the causes of radicalization. Poverty, inequality, overpopulation, oppression, these are the things that lead to radicalization. Any hearing that was truly addressing radicalization would look at those factors, not the "infiltration of America mosques" and that sort of racist claptrap. That is why these hearings ring so false, and smack of racism.
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If you would listen to the testimony you would find that part of the tragedy is that the young men who were radicalized were promising young men, radicalized in a mosque and at university. When the Bihi boy went to Somalia for training his father was advised by the mosque authorities not to contact the FBI. They advised and threatened other parents as well. Go listen, it's enlightening.

Maybe we should send money to the poor disenfranchised Muslim youth to help them feel better? Oh wait, the Saudi royals already do that.




Levey said the Saudi government has not moved to publicly hold accountable those within the kingdom who have been the subject of enforcement actions by the U.S. and other authorities.

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) said the Saudi failures mean that Americans who pay more than $100 a barrel for oil are in effect bankrolling extremism because wealthy Saudis "back-door" their profits into charities that fund extremist causes.
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http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/02/nation/na-terror2/2
 
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justabubba said:
interesting article which opines that this hearing was something other than a "success"

The 6 dumbest things said at Rep. Peter King’s Muslim radicalization hearing | The Raw Story

1) Neo-Nazis don't commit terrorist acts
2) Probing U.S. Muslims is just like probing Nazi war criminals, KKK
3) 'We've surrendered the constitution to the jihadists'
4) 'Most' Muslims just don't understand the Koran!
5) America couldn't possibly ally with Muslim countries
6) Obama isn't 'singling out' Muslims enough

no surprise that a hearing by a congressman who openly supported (IRA) terrorism is full of stupid statements
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Did those people actually SAY those things? If so then those are extremely stupid. If those quotes are taken out of context, then there's something wrong with your source.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Did those people actually SAY those things? If so then those are extremely stupid. If those quotes are taken out of context, then there's something wrong with your source.
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read it for yourself and answer your own questions
please
 
I didn't hear those things. Why not go find proof?
 
Guy Incognito said:
Yeah, them too. That's the thing about the Tea Party racists, they are playing right into the hands of the people who committed the 9/11 attacks. The tea party bigots' hatred of Muslims is so mainstream that our congress is committing McCarthy-esque hearings against an entire religion. They are trying to pit Americans against Islam itself, which is precisely the battle the terrorists wanted to fight.

Don't you get it? The terrorists wanted this.
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How so?

Personally, I think these hearings are about 9 years late. It's about time we have an investigation like what Senator McCarthy conducted.
 
Barbbtx said:
Well it's obvious that a few here didn't watch it.
The only down side was a few dems screaming for investigations into the KKK and Christian radicals.
The three Muslims who testifed couldn't have been more grateful for the hearings and want them to continue.
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I think the part that some folks on this thread--the historically challenged folk--don't realize, is that those investigations have already taken place. The government has already violated the civil rights of KKK members and crippled the KKK, hopefully forever.

Now, the same needs to be done with radical Muslims in the United States.
 
apdst said:
It's about time we have an investigation like what Senator McCarthy conducted.
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Its one thing to do an investigation into radicalized Islam in the U.S, but to go to the lengths of McCarthy is just asking for trouble.
 
Travelsonic said:
Its one thing to do an investigation into radicalized Islam in the U.S, but to go to the lengths of McCarthy is just asking for trouble.
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What lengths did he go to?

His investigations exposed Communist moles at the very highest levels in our country. Senator McCarthy probably save this country, almost single handedly.
 
apdst said:
What lengths did he go to?

His investigations exposed Communist moles at the very highest levels in our country. Senator McCarthy probably save this country, almost single handedly.
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If you had any sense of history you'd have known that McCarthy failed to substantiate the vast majority of his accusations. He even targeted George C. Marshall, for Chrissakes, one of America's greatest generals. Talk about a witch hunt.
 
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apdst said:
What lengths did he go to?

His investigations exposed Communist moles at the very highest levels in our country. Senator McCarthy probably save this country, almost single handedly.
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holy cow. he was a sad alcoholic. most of his accusations were never proved, and he was censured. what a great man.
 
apdst said:
What lengths did he go to?

His investigations exposed Communist moles at the very highest levels in our country. Senator McCarthy probably save this country, almost single handedly.
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why am i not suprised that you would support, defend and advocate such a character as this:
... McCarthy's tactics and his inability to substantiate his claims led him to be censured by the United States Senate. ...
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Joseph McCarthy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

getting back on topic
if the congress would investigate the Christian community for the terrorism that eminates from its members just as it has done the muslim community, then no obvious double standard would be recognized. but since it did not hold a hearing about the Christian community's disproportionate number of terrorists, and the terroristic acts they perpetrate, while encouraging the Christian community to self enforece its membersship, the hearing can only be found hypocritical. more so since the one leading the inquiry is himself a professed, outspoken advocate for (the IRA brand of) terrorism
 
justabubba said:
if the congress would investigate the Christian community for the terrorism that eminates from its members just as it has done the muslim community, then no obvious double standard would be recognized. but since it did not hold a hearing about the Christian community's disproportionate number of terrorists, and the terroristic acts they perpetrate, while encouraging the Christian community to self enforece its membersship, the hearing can only be found hypocritical. more so since the one leading the inquiry is himself a professed, outspoken advocate for (the IRA brand of) terrorism
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Are you mostly referring to the fundamentalist militia movement?
 
The hearings will hopefully shed light on some of the more shadowy things going on inside the Muslim community. How can more information be a bad thing? Knowledge is power. The more you know about a thing the better prepared you are to confront a thing.
 
LookingGlass said:
The hearings will hopefully shed light on some of the more shadowy things going on inside the Muslim community. How can more information be a bad thing? Knowledge is power. The more you know about a thing the better prepared you are to confront a thing.
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I don't think the hearings themselves are a bad thing. I do think focusing SOLELY on the religious issue gets us sidetracked about the root causes of terrorism and how people become susceptible to being indoctrinated. However many have also focused on the fact that these hearings increase the negative media perception towards Muslims in general and may further skew people's view of Islam as a whole rather than just the radicals. <--Not saying those are my beliefs because I didn't watch the proceedings, but those are the concerns of some people.
 
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