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Thread: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I think you're giving Al-Qaeda way too much credit here. I doubt they had all of these calculations in mind. In reality all AQ wanted to achieve in committing 9/11 was that they thought they could get us to withdraw our military forces from the Middle East and stop supporting Israel. Clearly they miscalculated, although we haven't done ourselves any favors. I doubt that it was their master plan to put America against all of Islam, but clearly the spate of Islamic terrorism in recent decades have colored and skewed the West's view of Islam for sure. I think it's a temporary thing that will pass (even if it takes awhile to do so), just like discrimination against Japanese and Chinese-Americans. Clearly AQ itself isn't really better off after doing all this, so I think it's a real big stretch to say "this is what they wanted all along." They certainly haven't done themselves any favors.
    I think you are wrong. I think the 'clever' part of 9/11 was knowing the racism/islamphobia in the West and how it would react against Muslims. I am pretty convinced that was firmly thought of. I know just a couple of months ago I was reading a radical who quite correctly said that if it wasn't for racism, they would not have a chance, and I have always thought this was a deliberate part of 9/11.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Two words folks: Alger. Hiss.

    History is a wonderful thing. Especially, if you are actually aware of the historical facts that make up the big picture.

    Stillballin, my man, you need to go to the school that you got your history degree from and get your money back.
    apdst...notice i said THE MAJORITY of his accusations were unsubstantiated. This isn't a debatable fact, it's the truth. Add that to the fact that he got censured. Now, I didn't say there wasn't anyone at all, but one example hardly supports your point or disproves mine. And I always try to find some common ground with you apdst even though we disagree on most things, but this isn't the first time you've used your own distorted version of revisionist history (the last time was when we were talking about Vietnam and how the South "chose" democracy) in your arguments.

    Is/was espionage a problem? It always is. I don't deny that. But this hardly justified the ridiculous witch hunt that McCarthy engaged in, him being censured was a complete indictment of his agenda.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 03-11-11 at 06:24 PM.

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    I think you are wrong. I think the 'clever' part of 9/11 was knowing the racism/islamphobia in the West and how it would react against Muslims. I am pretty convinced that was firmly thought of. I know just a couple of months ago I was reading a radical who quite correctly said that if it wasn't for racism, they would not have a chance, and I have always thought this was a deliberate part of 9/11.
    Whether this is true or not is debatable. However it hardly helps Al-Qaeda or makes it stronger. I think people, including Al-Qaeda themselves, use this as a post facto justification for the things they did, but i don't think AQ really thought that far ahead about what would happen. And what did that radical mean by "they wouldn't have had a chance?" A chance to do what?
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 03-11-11 at 06:28 PM.

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Peter King is quite possibly the biggest douche in Congress. My God, what an ass. What exactly does he expect to learn from these hearings? What are the policy implications...round up all Muslims and put them in internment camps?
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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Whether this is true or not is debatable. However it hardly helps Al-Qaeda or makes it stronger. I think people, including Al-Qaeda themselves, use this as a post facto justification for the things they did, but i don't think AQ really thought that far ahead about what would happen. And what did that radical mean by "they wouldn't have had a chance?" A chance to do what?
    Whether or not al-Qaeda intended to spark anti-Islam sentiments in the U.S. on 9/11 is definitely debatable. And I agree with you, in the sense that their only clear strategic motive was to get the United States out of the Persian Gulf. However, Islamaphobia in the United States helps al-Qaeda in two ways: 1) It creates an image of the U.S. that al-Qaeda wants. 2) It helps al-Qaeda recruit more members. The more America looks like it hates Muslims, the easier it is for them to get members. Whether or not these benefits outweigh the damage done to them by the United States hunting al-Qaeda down overseas is another question.

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    McCarthy was a self-serving bastard who caused serious damage the nation. The state department was filled with spies, yet McCarthy never actually managed to uncover any real evidence against them. Instead he leveled completely baseless accusations with zero proof. The biggest harm was that legitimate investigation into actual spies was associated with McCarthy's witch hunt. He actually furthered the abilities of soviet espionage.

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Whether or not al-Qaeda intended to spark anti-Islam sentiments in the U.S. on 9/11 is definitely debatable. And I agree with you, in the sense that their only clear strategic motive was to get the United States out of the Persian Gulf. However, Islamaphobia in the United States helps al-Qaeda in two ways: 1) It creates an image of the U.S. that al-Qaeda wants. 2) It helps al-Qaeda recruit more members. The more America looks like it hates Muslims, the easier it is for them to get members. Whether or not these benefits outweigh the damage done to them by the United States hunting al-Qaeda down overseas is another question.
    No disagreement here man.

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Whether this is true or not is debatable. However it hardly helps Al-Qaeda or makes it stronger. I think people, including Al-Qaeda themselves, use this as a post facto justification for the things they did, but i don't think AQ really thought that far ahead about what would happen. And what did that radical mean by "they wouldn't have had a chance?" A chance to do what?
    No, I don't think it was post. We, in the UK had radicals around ready to swoop up people who knew swa about Islam but suffered the post 9/11 hatred and took to being Muslim. Radicals want the West to hate the Muslims in their midst. Their programing is based on this.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Peter King is quite possibly the biggest douche in Congress. My God, what an ass. What exactly does he expect to learn from these hearings? What are the policy implications...round up all Muslims and put them in internment camps?
    I thought the reason and what he hopes to learn was identified in the first 20 seconds. From the transcript (hat tip: to donsutherland1's post earlier in this thread) and the following is found in the video of the opening statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rep. King
    Good Morning. The committee of Homeland Security will come to order. The committee is meeting today to hear testimony on the extent of radicalization in the American Muslim community and to investigate that community's response.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I thought the reason and what he hopes to learn was identified in the first 20 seconds. From the transcript (hat tip: to donsutherland1's post earlier in this thread) and the following is found in the video of the opening statements.
    How the heck could anyone give any credibility to an IRA supporter complaining about terrorism?
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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