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Thread: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    Beck covered it yesterday, but until your post I hadn't heard anything else about it.

    Dead Jews Is No News - By Mark Steyn - The Corner - National Review Online
    And you're unlikely to.

    There is a strong movement, as you can see on this thread alone, that Islamic terrorism is not a real problem, that the Jews and Tamil Tigers are much worse. Thus anything that doesn't fall into this scenario is censored or manipulated in such a way that the truth is obscured.

    We know what happened to these Jewish people is true but we have to discover it in oblique ways, and then try to trace back to various sources to see what actually happened.

    I don't watch Beck much but if he claimed there was a cover-up about this he was spot on. And we can only imagine how many others there might have been.

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    My uncle bob, hes a real jerk.
    You share his DNA it seems.

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And you're unlikely to.

    There is a strong movement, as you can see on this thread alone, that Islamic terrorism is not a real problem, that the Jews and Tamil Tigers are much worse. Thus anything that doesn't fall into this scenario is censored or manipulated in such a way that the truth is obscured.

    We know what happened to these Jewish people is true but we have to discover it in oblique ways, and then try to trace back to various sources to see what actually happened.

    I don't watch Beck much but if he claimed there was a cover-up about this he was spot on. And we can only imagine how many others there might have been.
    Nobody argued this Grant. We have all said that we think terrorism is a problem. Our arguments have been about what caused this problem. You can't rationalize being wrong by attributing arguments to people that they never made.

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Nobody argued this Grant. We have all said that we think terrorism is a problem. Our arguments have been about what caused this problem. You can't rationalize being wrong by attributing arguments to people that they never made.
    I understand what you believe the problem to be. You said so.

    Here it is.

    What you are failing to understand or acknowledge, however, is that Muslim terrorists do not attack because of Islam, they attack because of political motivations (i.e. they want the U.S. to get the **** off of their territory).
    It is Muslim held territory, though its location is ujmentioned, but Islam is not involved.

    This is so hugely irrational it makes no sense whatsoever. I can only guess that you don't realize Muslims have a connection to Islam.

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I understand what you believe the problem to be. You said so.

    Here it is.



    It is Muslim held territory, though its location is ujmentioned, but Islam is not involved.

    This is so hugely irrational it makes no sense whatsoever. I can only guess that you don't realize Muslims have a connection to Islam.
    This is my argument:
    Muslim terrorists do not attack because of Islam, they attack because of political motivations (i.e. they want the U.S. to get the **** off of their territory)
    This is the CIA's argument:
    Former CIA analyst Michael Scheuer, who led the CIA's hunt for Osama Bin Laden, states that terrorist attacks-specifically Al Qaeda attacks on America are not motivated by a religiously-inspired hatred of American culture or religion, but by the belief that U.S. foreign policy has oppressed, killed, or otherwise harmed Muslims in the Middle East, condensed in the phrase "They hate us for what we do, not who we are."
    This is Pape's argument (the person who as done the most comprehensive study of suicide terrorism):
    Terrorists utilizing suicide attacks are driven not by Islamism but by "a clear strategic objective: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland."[17]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic...amic_terrorism

    No one has argued that Islam is not 'involved'. Everyone has argued that Islam is not the cause.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 03-15-11 at 04:19 PM.

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    coolpoints for playdrive.

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    coolpoints for playdrive.
    Thanks SE102.

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    This is my argument:


    This is the CIA's argument:


    This is Pape's argument (the person who as done the most comprehensive study of suicide terrorism):


    Islamic terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    No one has argued that Islam is not 'involved'. Everyone has argued that Islam is not the cause.
    Why do you say "everyone" when you are only selecting one name and one excuse given for Islamic terrorism? You are either doing this deliberately or simply aren't familiar with the problem or are new to the debate. I suspect the latter.

    If you read down on the same page you will see several causes, none of which involve territory.

    Here's one.

    "* A belief that Muslims have deviated from true Islam and must return to “pure Islam” as originally practiced during the time of the Prophet.
    * The path to “pure Islam” is only through a literal and strict interpretation of the Qur'an and Hadith, along with implementation of the Prophet’s commands.
    * Muslims should interpret the original sources individually without being bound to follow the interpretations of Islamic scholars.
    * That any interpretation of the Quran from a historical, contextual perspective is a corruption, and that the majority of Islamic history and the classical jurisprudential tradition is mere sophistry".

    There are equally strong arguments for alienation, self-fulfillment, Jihadism, and so on. But all involve Muslims and Islam.

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Why do you say "everyone" when you are only selecting one name and one excuse given for Islamic terrorism? You are either doing this deliberately or simply aren't familiar with the problem or are new to the debate. I suspect the latter.

    If you read down on the same page you will see several causes, none of which involve territory.

    Here's one.

    "* A belief that Muslims have deviated from true Islam and must return to “pure Islam” as originally practiced during the time of the Prophet.
    * The path to “pure Islam” is only through a literal and strict interpretation of the Qur'an and Hadith, along with implementation of the Prophet’s commands.
    * Muslims should interpret the original sources individually without being bound to follow the interpretations of Islamic scholars.
    * That any interpretation of the Quran from a historical, contextual perspective is a corruption, and that the majority of Islamic history and the classical jurisprudential tradition is mere sophistry".

    There are equally strong arguments for alienation, self-fulfillment, Jihadism, and so on. But all involve Muslims and Islam.
    There are always different opinions on everything, but no expert in suicide terrorism has to agree with them. I'm done.

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    This is my argument:


    This is the CIA's argument:


    This is Pape's argument (the person who as done the most comprehensive study of suicide terrorism):


    Islamic terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    No one has argued that Islam is not 'involved'. Everyone has argued that Islam is not the cause.

    First off Scheuer no longer works for the CIA, and as of late is singing a different tune. Especially where Amhadinjihad or bin Laden are involved.

    Second, Pape although not a self professed liberal, sits in the ivory tower of UofChicago and caters to a who's who of liberals. Not only professionally but in writing as well. That you would attempt to use the well worn liberal tactic of the unassailable individual to make your argument for his hypothesis only tells me that something is seriously wrong with it.

    Consider an OpEd that Pape wrote for the NYTimes last year on Chechen women...He used the same arguments you are trying here and was smacked down in a rebuttal, here is a snippet of that retort.

    There are, to put it mildly, a lot of problems with Robert Pape’s op-ed. As his colleagues have already pointed out (see American Political Science Review, Volume 102, Issue 02, May 2008, pp 269-273), he only samples suicide attacks in his research, making it impossible to assess the motivations of wider, mixed-tactics terrorist campaigns. (For instance, Pape’s calculus would ignore the first of yesterday’s two bombings in Dagestan, on the grounds that the first attack involved a remote car bomb – not a suicide explosion.) Even if Pape is correct that the individuals who strap themselves to bombs indeed operate under non-religious imperatives, we can hardly conclude that the support networks enabling these attacks would be possible without the role of religious extremism.

    More than anything, reading “What Makes Chechen Women So Dangerous?” demonstrates the author’s weak grasp of Russian and Chechen history.

    Response to Robert Pape's NYT Op-Ed « A Good Treaty
    this points to some flawed methodology in Pape's theories.

    The fact that today's terror attacks around the world is nearly 100% driven by Islam not only as a religious ideology, but Islam as a political tool as well, shows me further that this PoliSci prof is far too narrow in his attempt to blame his own country like any good dhimmi should.

    j-mac
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