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Thread: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Describe for me please "reasonable Actions".

    And why is it their problem that some assholes twist their religion.
    I already identified some of those reasonable actions in the first part of my previous post. It's their problem because those assholes are claiming Islam as their reason for killing people and / or their terrorist act. Those assholes hijacked Islam and I guess I'm surprised the Muslim communities around the world are not pissed off about it - or if they are, that they're not taking some of those reasonable actions.

    The get pissed off quick about Western powers being on Islamic land though.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    They are not racist.

    I don't think Oakham is a racist, I just think he doesn't understand.

    To call someone a racist is far too easy.

    There are people on this board who were racist against muslims, and there names need not be mentioned here, but Oakham is not one of them.

    Fundamentally, the flaw people are making is finding causation in Islam, where there is none, Islam is used as a tool by AL Queada, but ultimately, their goals have, and always shall be political.

    They do not do what they do BECAUSE they are muslim.
    Amen to that.

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    However, if the country is overrun with witches, it would be the solution.
    It would be if that were true, but it's not.

    I think calling for "moderate Muslims" to condemn radical/fundamentalist Islamic violence is only useful so long as radical Muslims care about what the moderates have to say. For the most part most moderate Muslim Americans have nothing to do with radical Islam, unless for instance if it's their kids that are being recruited for Al-Shabaab or whatnot.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    They are not racist.

    I don't think Oakham is a racist, I just think he doesn't understand.

    To call someone a racist is far too easy.
    I disagree. It's hard to have to face up to the fact that some people are motivated by irrational hatred. You can call it racism or xenophobia or whatever you like, but the fact is they are not motivated by rationality, but by animalistic hatred and fear. You are as likely to succeed in reasoning with these folks as you re to succeed in reasoning with a junkyard dog. They apply exactly the same amount of logic to their hatred.

    Your continued defense of racists is really starting to puzzle me.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 03-14-11 at 12:36 PM.

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Condemnation is fine, but the next logical step is action of some sort. What actions do the Muslim communities take as a result of attacks and are those actions public?
    Do you expect action from all Christian people whenever one of them kills an abortion provider or bombs a clinic? If so, what have prominent Christian leaders done to stop these things?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I already identified some of those reasonable actions in the first part of my previous post. It's their problem because those assholes are claiming Islam as their reason for killing people and / or their terrorist act. Those assholes hijacked Islam and I guess I'm surprised the Muslim communities around the world are not pissed off about it - or if they are, that they're not taking some of those reasonable actions.
    But again, all this assumes Islam is the reason they do what they do, which they do not.

    They do use it as a tool for political ends.

    Imagine now, just for a second, you're a young man in Afghanistan, you have nothing, and all you've been told from the time you're 5 is that the Americans are bad, Islam is the only way, and the only way to achieve victory in this world is to blow yourself up.... and he's told this by old men who have no interest in dying themselves because they are cowards hiding behind the religion they have twisted, and are their goals to usher in a new dawn for Islam? No. Are their goals to shift the invaders out of their country so they can take it back and have their power again? Yes.

    You see, no "Summit" no "Condemnation" is gonna fix something like that.

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I already identified some of those reasonable actions in the first part of my previous post. It's their problem because those assholes are claiming Islam as their reason for killing people and / or their terrorist act. Those assholes hijacked Islam and I guess I'm surprised the Muslim communities around the world are not pissed off about it - or if they are, that they're not taking some of those reasonable actions.

    The get pissed off quick about Western powers being on Islamic land though.
    But why should they take actions when they know that they are not to blame. That would be exhausting and in many ways, counterproductive, because many Muslims have come out against it and it still isn't enough. It wouldn't make sense for all whites to continually come out against the Aryan Brotherhood, all blacks to come out against the Bloods, etc.

    The information about Islam and its members is available for everyone to see. Why is not the responsibility of those who are concerned about Muslims to go and find that information and calm their own fears?

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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Do you expect action from all Christian people whenever one of them kills an abortion provider or bombs a clinic? If so, what have prominent Christian leaders done to stop these things?
    If there were, for the past 30 years Christians who kill and suicide bomb other tens of thousands of people all over the world and who claim Christianity as their PRIMARY reason for carrying out those attacks, absolutely I would expect it.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    But again, all this assumes Islam is the reason they do what they do, which they do not.

    They do use it as a tool for political ends.

    Imagine now, just for a second, you're a young man in Afghanistan, you have nothing, and all you've been told from the time you're 5 is that the Americans are bad, Islam is the only way, and the only way to achieve victory in this world is to blow yourself up.... and he's told this by old men who have no interest in dying themselves because they are cowards hiding behind the religion they have twisted, and are their goals to usher in a new dawn for Islam? No. Are their goals to shift the invaders out of their country so they can take it back and have their power again? Yes.
    But we're not talking about Afghans, we're talking about Al Qaeda using citing Islam as you point out, for political reasons, as the primary reason to kill Westerners, and recruiting world wide, those in the Muslim communities around the world, who wish to join their cause and die for Islam. I agree with your Afghan view, but that's not what these hearings were about and that's not what I'm citing as a reasonable action. I see it as reasonable in America, for mosques to take the actions I laid out. How are those actions in America's mosques unreasonable?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    But why should they take actions when they know that they are not to blame.
    Their motivation is not due to blame, their motiviation is to distance themselves from and guide their congregations away from such groups and individuals which they DO condemn.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    That would be exhausting and in many ways, counterproductive, because many Muslims have come out against it and it still isn't enough. It wouldn't make sense for all whites to continually come out against the Aryan Brotherhood, all blacks to come out against the Bloods, etc.
    You think that conversation doesn't happen in Churches and communities where Aryan's and Bloods exist? Of course they do ... those conversations need to occur where we already know radicals lived, prayed and met.

    For example, the Buffalo Six were arrested in 2002 - if that outreach and guidance were adopted by mosques in the Buffalo area, the arrests in 2011 may never have happened. All I'm asking for is some pro-active reasonable action here. Why is that so bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    The information about Islam and its members is available for everyone to see. Why is not the responsibility of those who are concerned about Muslims to go and find that information and calm their own fears?
    I don't know what this means exactly...
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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