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Thread: France formally recognises Libyan rebels' authority

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    Re: France formally recognises Libyan rebels' authority

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Well there is a huge difference here. Bin Laden was/is in hiding from the start.. Gadaffi has to show his face.
    The theory was that technology would easily pin-point Bin Laden. If we killed him it was years after we went into Afghanistan. I don't see any validation for an interdiction to get Gaddafi happening anytime soon and that will allow him to get cover. I'm also reminded how long it took to find Saddam Hussein and he had enemies within too just as Gaddafi has.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    -- I agree.. as for loosing to National Front.. dont agree
    Currently there's a real risk Marine le Pen will knock him out in round one. Of course France will embrace and unite against whoever opposes her but her father surprised everybody last time round and he was less popular.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The real problem is actually the US at the moment.
    The US needs to simply stay quiet and out of this, there's great suspicion of the US propping up people like Mubarak and we don't want whoever takes over to be seen as beholden to the US otherwise you'll just end up with an Islamist Govt.

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    Re: France formally recognises Libyan rebels' authority

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    There is, Al Jazerra, BBC all say so .. not so much the American news of course. His whole tribe, which is a considerable number of people in the western areas, are with him and wont dump him any time soon. What we have in many ways, is a tribal war between East and West.
    I have heard he has three tribes on his side..so yes, even as he says there is the danger of tribal war

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post

    Yep that is a huge problem. But according to Al Jazerra the rebels are doing the paperwork so to say.. but it takes time and without a unified leadership and front figure, then it is especially hard.
    Yes, I have heard because they are intelligent and well educated there is no reason why they would not be able to construct something appropriate fairly quickly



    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    No we dont know what will happen and that is the problem. Getting rid of Gaddafi will happen at some point.. he is an old man, but the who will replace him and with what is a big unknown. The biggest threat is a power vaccum no doubt about that, but if it stood between aiding the rebels via bombing the **** out of Gaddafi forces and him vs assassination .. then I would choose assassination any day.
    I would like something a bit more subtle in such a volatile situation. Last night we heard the Libyan government speaking about democracy. Gadaffi has his people about the place discussing things. If a way can be found for him to discretely by choice leave power and for the country to come together accepting democracy then that would be best - otherwise I suspect civil war, people doing real massacres and/ or the west putting it's foot in, needed or not.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: France formally recognises Libyan rebels' authority

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    I have heard he has three tribes on his side..so yes, even as he says there is the danger of tribal war



    Yes, I have heard because they are intelligent and well educated there is no reason why they would not be able to construct something appropriate fairly quickly





    I would like something a bit more subtle in such a volatile situation. Last night we heard the Libyan government speaking about democracy. Gadaffi has his people about the place discussing things. If a way can be found for him to discretely by choice leave power and for the country to come together accepting democracy then that would be best - otherwise I suspect civil war, people doing real massacres and/ or the west putting it's foot in, needed or not.
    What this situation does NOT require is the West being seen to be intervening. If the situation does deteriorate into open civil war, the only thing to be done is for the UN to get monitors in there asap, and peace-keeping troops from non-aligned nations. Such arrangements won't stop the worst, should either side decide on it, but it may just dissuade them, especially Gadaffi, from the worst excesses. Should those excesses occur, a full-scale trade blockade of Libya needs to be on the agenda.

    Until the situation is clear, the US is doing the right thing. France is playing a dangerous game in pre-empting the transfer of de facto and de jure power away from Gadaffi.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: France formally recognises Libyan rebels' authority

    IMO, unless France is willing to supply arms to the anti-Gadhafi transitional government, it risks seeing its diplomatic recognition ring hollow. While I do not believe Gadhafi's forces will quickly recapture eastern Libya--picking off units that are overextended is quite different from fighting more concentrated forces--a defeat without French arms assistance would indicate to the world that French diplomatic recognition is insignificant or worse.

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    Re: France formally recognises Libyan rebels' authority

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    What this situation does NOT require is the West being seen to be intervening. If the situation does deteriorate into open civil war, the only thing to be done is for the UN to get monitors in there asap, and peace-keeping troops from non-aligned nations. Such arrangements won't stop the worst, should either side decide on it, but it may just dissuade them, especially Gadaffi, from the worst excesses. Should those excesses occur, a full-scale trade blockade of Libya needs to be on the agenda.

    Until the situation is clear, the US is doing the right thing. France is playing a dangerous game in pre-empting the transfer of de facto and de jure power away from Gadaffi.
    Now, it is. I have heard things wheich make me think Gadaffi may be willing to leave - the talk of democracy and the talks outside Libya. If he can be persuaded that it is time to go I think that is the best solution.

    Sanctions - they are already talking about people suffering hunger.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: France formally recognises Libyan rebels' authority

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    The theory was that technology would easily pin-point Bin Laden. If we killed him it was years after we went into Afghanistan. I don't see any validation for an interdiction to get Gaddafi happening anytime soon and that will allow him to get cover. I'm also reminded how long it took to find Saddam Hussein and he had enemies within too just as Gaddafi has.
    No technology is as good as actually first hand human intel. With Bin Laden that is near impossible to get, Saddam had lost and was on the run.. Gaddafi is still trying to keep his country and needs to be out in the open to rally the troops. That is a huge difference.

    Currently there's a real risk Marine le Pen will knock him out in round one. Of course France will embrace and unite against whoever opposes her but her father surprised everybody last time round and he was less popular.
    We shall see.

    The US needs to simply stay quiet and out of this, there's great suspicion of the US propping up people like Mubarak and we don't want whoever takes over to be seen as beholden to the US otherwise you'll just end up with an Islamist Govt.
    Yep that is why it was wise for Clinton to say it had to be a UN thing not a US thing.
    PeteEU

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    Re: France formally recognises Libyan rebels' authority

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    IMO, unless France is willing to supply arms to the anti-Gadhafi transitional government, it risks seeing its diplomatic recognition ring hollow. While I do not believe Gadhafi's forces will quickly recapture eastern Libya--picking off units that are overextended is quite different from fighting more concentrated forces--a defeat without French arms assistance would indicate to the world that French diplomatic recognition is insignificant or worse.
    French diplomatic recognition is bad enough already thanks to Sarkozy's clumsy Govt. We should not intervene without UN mandate. We should not help the rebels other than with humanitarian assistance. The short-arsed wee Pétainist Sarko and his Napoleonic complex should abandon his mediterranean folly. I hope other EU countries' heads of state will put him back in his place during today's summit.
    Last edited by paris; 03-11-11 at 07:56 AM.

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    Re: France formally recognises Libyan rebels' authority

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    IMO, unless France is willing to supply arms to the anti-Gadhafi transitional government, it risks seeing its diplomatic recognition ring hollow. While I do not believe Gadhafi's forces will quickly recapture eastern Libya--picking off units that are overextended is quite different from fighting more concentrated forces--a defeat without French arms assistance would indicate to the world that French diplomatic recognition is insignificant or worse.
    Looks like Cameron is dragging us along too

    France, UK seek targeted strikes in Libya if needed - Yahoo! News UK

    (Not that I agree with mustard gas but I saw all too well the moral position of MP's on this when I saw the kurds being gassed on my tv screne)
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: France formally recognises Libyan rebels' authority

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Looks like Cameron is dragging us along too

    France, UK seek targeted strikes in Libya if needed - Yahoo! News UK

    (Not that I agree with mustard gas but I saw all too well the moral position of MP's on this when I saw the kurds being gassed on my tv screne)
    The UK and France should be very careful with this. Remember the Suez crisis?

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    Re: France formally recognises Libyan rebels' authority

    Quote Originally Posted by paris View Post
    The UK and France should be very careful with this. Remember the Suez crisis?
    Not well enough I am afraid but thank you for beginning to bring the issue possibly nearer the point.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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