Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

randel · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

cpwill said:
it's a violation of federal law; but why is it any more a violation of the workers' rights than making membership in a union a condition of employment. if a workplace says "if you work here, you can't organize into a union" then that is no more or less coercive than them saying, "if you work here, you must organize into a union."

the utter implausibility of your claims that janitors and bus drivers are coming in with more than $100 million in small amounts of cash and giving it to their unions cause they just like them.

not sure i follow you on the last part, but yes, voluntary contributions do net a fair amount of cash....whether you believe that or not, i can't help, except to ask you a few questions...have you belonged to a union? i believe the answer to be NO, so , your knowledge on how the unions raise money for political activities is extremely limited, to say the least....quite a few folks have money taken out of their checks in my union, for v-cap, those amounts range from a couple of dollars a week to sometimes 50-100 dollars a month, and this is above and beyond the dues they pay. i'm sure this is the same in all other unions when it comes to funding political activities. as for the first part, the employee has the CHOICE right at the beginning of employment, to either work in the shop, and join the union, or to say no thankyou, if they honestly have that big of a problem working in a union shop. and yes, a shop owner would be violating federal law by telling workers that no they can't join a union if they work for him...that is not his choice, it is the CHOICE OF THOSE WORKING IN THE SHOP TO FORM A UNION OR NOT, i believe you know and understand this.

Conservative · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

iamitter said:
Americans usually vote for the incumbent for president if a crappy opposition is put up. Frankly, at this point, the only viable republicans who could beat Obama are the boring ones who nobody will like.

This incumbent has terrible results and that will make the choice easier. It will be the Obama agenda and results that decide the 2012 elections more than the candidate the GOP runs, IMO

haymarket · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:
Yet, Obama is imposing a far left ideology on a center right country. He is exactly who his resume said he was and the people ignored it but are now waking up. Your vision of the country and his is contrary to the majority in this country. People bought the "hope and change" message but their definition of change was different than Obama's. We are seeing the results of the Obama definition and it is being rejected. The November 2010 elections were a start.

I think if you actually did see a far left agenda you would collapse in fright. Anybody who truly believes President Obama is pursuing a far left agenda is completely and totally ignorant of what the left wants and advocates. It is ample evidence of the far right nature of your beliefs that you would confuse the two.

Jetboogieman · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:
Yet, Obama is imposing a far left ideology on a center right country.

I'll remember that the next time I read that Obama compromised on tax cuts for the rich, riepointed Gates, Giethner and Bernanke who were all under Bush and have held the same economic politices.

Sure some of what Obama has done might have been "left wing".

But all in all to say he's "Imposing" anything gives him far too much credit there sport. He's not a dictator. :coffeepap

Conservative · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Jetboogieman said:
I'll remember that the next time I read that Obama compromised on tax cuts for the rich, riepointed Gates, Giethner and Bernanke who were all under Bush and have held the same economic politices.

Sure some of what Obama has done might have been "left wing".

But all in all to say he's "Imposing" anything gives him far too much credit there sport. He's not a dictator. :coffeepap

Obama economic policy is far from center, he was forced into extending the Bush tax cuts by his own party. Obamacare and the stimulus were far left policies and the results are quite telling, something his supporters refuse to discuss.

Conservative · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

haymarket said:
I think if you actually did see a far left agenda you would collapse in fright. Anybody who truly believes President Obama is pursuing a far left agenda is completely and totally ignorant of what the left wants and advocates. It is ample evidence of the far right nature of your beliefs that you would confuse the two.

Obamacare, the stimulus, wealth redistribution efforts, cap and trade, foreign appeasement are far left policies.

Jetboogieman · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:
Obamacare

One could argue it's far left policy.

However, forcing people to buy a private product which is what Obamacare is, is not my idea of a left wing policy.

I believe the mandate to be the real issue with Obamacare. And I have found it to be unconstitutional at this point. But it is not a "left wing policy".

stimulus

Please explain how the stimulus is a "left wing policy".

Dittohead not! · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

haymarket said:
I think if you actually did see a far left agenda you would collapse in fright. Anybody who truly believes President Obama is pursuing a far left agenda is completely and totally ignorant of what the left wants and advocates. It is ample evidence of the far right nature of your beliefs that you would confuse the two.

Exactly. Obama is neither as "liberal" as his further left supporters would like nor as his opponents paint him to be. Whether he gets a second term or not depends more on the economy and on who his opponent is than on how well he governs for the next year.

Bush I did a more creditable job than most of the POTUS immediately before and after, yet did not win reelection.

j-mac · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

randel said:
not sure i follow you on the last part, but yes, voluntary contributions do net a fair amount of cash....whether you believe that or not, i can't help, except to ask you a few questions...have you belonged to a union? i believe the answer to be NO, so , your knowledge on how the unions raise money for political activities is extremely limited, to say the least....quite a few folks have money taken out of their checks in my union, for v-cap, those amounts range from a couple of dollars a week to sometimes 50-100 dollars a month, and this is above and beyond the dues they pay. i'm sure this is the same in all other unions when it comes to funding political activities. as for the first part, the employee has the CHOICE right at the beginning of employment, to either work in the shop, and join the union, or to say no thankyou, if they honestly have that big of a problem working in a union shop. and yes, a shop owner would be violating federal law by telling workers that no they can't join a union if they work for him...that is not his choice, it is the CHOICE OF THOSE WORKING IN THE SHOP TO FORM A UNION OR NOT, i believe you know and understand this.

Unions don't own the job.

j-mac

haymarket · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:
Obamacare, the stimulus, wealth redistribution efforts, cap and trade, foreign appeasement are far left policies.

Actually they are not.

The health care compromise is not at all what liberals and progressives wanted. We wanted single payer for everyone and not what we ended up with. Strike one on you.
The stimulus was far short of what many of us advocated and did not go nearly far enough in many areas especially in creating new jobs. Strike two on you.
What wealth redistribution? I have seen none. Many of us wanted the tax cuts on the wealthy to bite the big one and even be increased but Obama never gave us either. Strike three on you.

Foreign appeasement? What the hell are you talking about? So you get an extra strike.

And you are out.
Out also in the far corner of right field.

Conservative · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Jetboogieman said:
One could argue it's far left policy.

However, forcing people to buy a private product which is what Obamacare is, is not my idea of a left wing policy.

I believe the mandate to be the real issue with Obamacare. And I have found it to be unconstitutional at this point. But it is not a "left wing policy".

Please explain how the stimulus is a "left wing policy".

Obama's goal is a single payer system which is basically the European model(far leftwing) that has failed to lower costs and improve quality. In order to get there he started with Obamacare, that is incrementalism.

Jetboogieman · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:
Obama's goal is a single payer system which is basically the European model(far leftwing) that has failed to lower costs and improve quality.

Ah you do realise that America spends more money then any other country in the world per capita, and gets lower results right?

In order to get there he started with Obamacare, that is incrementalism.

It's certainly POSSIBLE but the problem is, the Federal government would have to start aquiring private HMO's which I can't see happening without judicial and legislative intervention.

Again, you're giving Obama far too much credit here sport.

Conservative · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

haymarket;1059358871]Actually they are not.

Yes, actually they are according to the majority in this country

The health care compromise is not at all what liberals and progressives wanted. We wanted single payer for everyone and not what we ended up with. Strike one on you.

He couldn't sell single payer so he accepted an incremental approach to get there. His goal is still single payer and that is far leftwing.

The stimulus was far short of what many of us advocated and did not go nearly far enough in many areas especially in creating new jobs. Strike two on you.

Obama had total control of the Congress and to claim that his stimulus program was less than what you and others wanted ignores the fact that it was almost unanimously opposed by the Republicans. It isn't the amount that matters as much as where the money went. It bailed out union pension plans.

What wealth redistribution? I have seen none. Many of us wanted the tax cuts on the wealthy to bite the big one and even be increased but Obama never gave us either. Strike three on you.

That is his goal and has always been his goal, "spreading the wealth around", isn't that what he told Joe the Plumber? Obama couldn't sell his program but that doesn't make him any less leftwing, that is his goal as he doesn't understand free enterprise, wealth creation, and the private sector economy.

Foreign appeasement? What the hell are you talking about? So you get an extra strike.

The Middle East is on fire, he has basically dissed our major allies of England, France, Germany, and now Japan. Preferring instead to appease radical Islam, North Korea, and Iran.

And you are out.
Out also in the far corner of right field.

Game over and you lost in a shutout

j-mac · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Jetboogieman said:
Ah you do realise that America spends more money then any other country in the world per capita, and gets lower results right?

It's certainly POSSIBLE but the problem is, the Federal government would have to start aquiring private HMO's which I can't see happening without judicial and legislative intervention.

Again, you're giving Obama far too much credit here sport.

America spends more.....Greedy rich people.....Fat cat corporations.....Tax the rich.....I am beginning to see a pattern here....It's called the Green monster, or jealousy......

What makes libs think that because someone else worked hard, had a good idea, or became successful that they are entitled to just take that wealth? Go out and get your own!

j-mac

Jetboogieman · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:
The Middle East is on fire, he has basically dissed our major allies of England, France, Germany, and now Japan. Preferring instead to appease radical Islam, North Korea, and Iran.

Please elaborate on this cum custard.

What do you mean exactly? Please give examples.

Jetboogieman · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

j-mac said:
America spends more.....Greedy rich people.....Fat cat corporations.....Tax the rich.....I am beginning to see a pattern here....It's called the Green monster, or jealousy......

What makes libs think that because someone else worked hard, had a good idea, or became successful that they are entitled to just take that wealth? Go out and get your own!

j-mac

I believe you are confused about what I'm saying.

The American federal government spends more on trying to provide health care to its citizens, yet in many fields including life expectansy they fall short.

Again I'm not going to attribute this directly to money spent, considering that there are many others factors, especially in the United States Diet.

It had nothing to do with taxes or Greedy rich people. Check again.

Conservative · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Jetboogieman;1059358877]Ah you do realise that America spends more money then any other country in the world per capita, and gets lower results right?

So I am told, we spend more because we can plus we have more regulations and higher taxes than other nations have on the corporations and businesses in the healthcare field. Costs of R&D are much higher in this country because of quality control

It's certainly POSSIBLE but the problem is, the Federal government would have to start aquiring private HMO's which I can't see happening without judicial and legislative intervention.

That isn't because of lack of interest because that is exactly what obama wants, total control

Again, you're giving Obama far too much credit here sport.

He deserves credit for the results he has generated, 15 million unemployed Americans, more debt in 3 years than any other President in history, less people employed, meager economic growth, but his golf game has improved.

Conservative · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Jetboogieman said:
Please elaborate on this cum custard.

What do you mean exactly? Please give examples.

Where is Obama today? Where should he be? Where was Obama when Japan exploded? Where was Obama when Egypt exploded? Where was Obama when Europe was meeting on Libya? Let's not interrupt the golf game or vacation.

Jetboogieman · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:
That isn't because of lack of interest because that is exactly what obama wants, total control

Everything you say from now on has no validity whatsoever.

To believe the president wants "total control" is so stupid it defies imagination.

He's not going to be president forever, perhaps he's doing what "he believes to be right".

The compromise he came up with in the mandate I believe to be unconsitutional.

I should not be required to buy a private product by the federal government. I agree.

But he didn't do it because he wants "control".

Utterly rediculous right wing koolaid talking points.

randel · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

j-mac said:
Unions don't own the job.

j-mac

doesnt matter....not up to the employer whether the shop is unionized or not, it is up to the employees.

j-mac · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Jetboogieman said:
I believe you are confused about what I'm saying.

The American federal government spends more on trying to provide health care to its citizens, yet in many fields including life expectansy they fall short.

Again I'm not going to attribute this directly to money spent, considering that there are many others factors, especially in the United States Diet.

It had nothing to do with taxes or Greedy rich people. Check again.

Which is yet another dishonest, talking point argument brought forth by the UN study that used socialized health care as a metric to determine rankings. IOW flawed by bias. When taken in treatments on a rational, and fair scale America although expensive, has the best health care in the world.

j-mac

j-mac · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

randel said:
doesnt matter....not up to the employer whether the shop is unionized or not, it is up to the employees.

Ah, but this is where you are dead wrong. If the employer doesn't want to deal with the union mob, then they can close down and reopen with new workers.

j-mac

Jetboogieman · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:
Where is Obama today? Where should he be? Where was Obama when Japan exploded? Where was Obama when Egypt exploded? Where was Obama when Europe was meeting on Libya? Let's not interrupt the golf game or vacation.

The secretary of state is fulfilling her role and is in France with Sarkozy as we speak.

Obama gave a statement in Brazil not too long ago.

America is providing aid to Japan as we speak. Obama came out on many occasions to speak on the subject. Or should he be on the ground providing aid himself? will you be happy then?

Obama stayed out of the internal affairs of a relatively peaceful revolution in Egypt. I say well done.

Your partisan right wing talking points are getting old COnservative.

You're as transparent as glass.

Jetboogieman · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

j-mac said:
Which is yet another dishonest, talking point argument brought forth by the UN study that used socialized health care as a metric to determine rankings. IOW flawed by bias. When taken in treatments on a rational, and fair scale America although expensive, has the best health care in the world.

j-mac

If you can afford it.

randel · Mar 19, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

j-mac said:
Ah, but this is where you are dead wrong. If the employer doesn't want to deal with the union mob, then they can close down and reopen with new workers.

j-mac

ok champ, beleive what you want, i know i'm not gonna change your mind, lets just say i know better.

Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

randel

Conservative

haymarket

Jetboogieman

Somewhere in Babylon

Conservative

Conservative

Jetboogieman

Somewhere in Babylon

Dittohead not!

master political analyst

j-mac

haymarket

Conservative

Jetboogieman

Somewhere in Babylon

Conservative

j-mac

Jetboogieman

Somewhere in Babylon

Jetboogieman

Somewhere in Babylon

Conservative

Conservative

Jetboogieman

Somewhere in Babylon

randel

j-mac

j-mac

Jetboogieman

Somewhere in Babylon

Jetboogieman

Somewhere in Babylon

randel