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Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

call it what you will, it is par for you when proven wrong....again, they have a choice when they apply for the job...if you don't have a problem, great...if you do, you don't have to work here...you have 30 days...they have a choice.

interesting. and so given your deep respect for the ability of the workplace to set the conditions of unemployment (and since I know you enough to know that you are no partisan hypocrite), no doubt you would be equally accepting of a situation in which an employer could tell his employees that, if they joined a union, they would be fired?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

You'd think they'd at least agree that joining a union should be a choice.

well, they say it is because you choose whether or not to continue working there. let us see how seriously they take this logic, or if it is simply something they have told themselves. certainly i 'told' myself numerous things during the 2004 Reelection to justify supporting Bush (though really all i had to do was realize who he was running against), and now that I have realized that, it's more than a bit embarrassing
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

and that money (union dues) is then used to get even more money from the taxpayers. It's like paying someone to rob you.

no, technically we the people have the authority to shut the system down at any time - much like we just did in Wisconsin - by electing people who aren't beholden to or intimidated by the public unions. the buck stops with us.

PBraur; the unions in this instance absolutely did have money withheld from paychecks for their dues. such a measure is designed to hide the cost of the dues and lessen their emotional impact. that's why, for example, we tax in that method. If people had to actually write a check for 25% of their income at the end of the year, you'd see angry mobs burning their politicians in effigy in 50 capitals. making the employee make the payment themself (and giving them the choice of whether or not to do so) maximizes the ability and liberty of that individual worker to make his or her own decisions. That's part of what makes this debate so ironic; the measure actually isn't that bad for the workers; it's just bad for the unions.

Catawba: Cost Of War: $1,166,795,992,627 so, about 1.15 Trillion for Aghanistan and Iraq combined. or (to put it another way) all ten years add up roughly to about 76% of the national deficit that Obama wants to spend this year alone.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

interesting. and so given your deep respect for the ability of the workplace to set the conditions of unemployment (and since I know you enough to know that you are no partisan hypocrite), no doubt you would be equally accepting of a situation in which an employer could tell his employees that, if they joined a union, they would be fired?
the employer and the union have a contract detailing terms of employment, the shop is unionized, then new hires have to join the union within 30 days, no free riders....potential new hires absolutely have a choice of whether to work in a union shop or not. employers threatening to fire employees if they form a union is a violation of federal law.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

and that money (union dues) is then used to get even more money from the taxpayers. It's like paying someone to rob you.
are you seriously going with the warped logic of conservative? the dues go for administration and enforcement of the contract. no one is having a gun held to their heads.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Corporations are legal entities designed to reduce individual liability. They are run by individuals as corporations do not make decisions, people do. Now respond to the rest of my post regarding corporations paying taxes, individuals in those corporations paying taxes, corporations paying dividends and donating to charities? A lot of seniors rely on dividends from those evil corporations.

A century and a half ago we had the Dred Scott Decision in which persons were declared to be property without rights. Now we have the Citizens United Decision in which property is declared to be persons with rights. We have most certainly fallen down the rabbit hole and will soon overtake alice on the way to the mad tea party.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

:roll: yes, people still have the right to free speech, even if they act together. as a corporate unit or as a union. I notice that many seem to leave that last distinction to the ruling out.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

the employer and the union have a contract detailing terms of employment, the shop is unionized, then new hires have to join the union within 30 days, no free riders....potential new hires absolutely have a choice of whether to work in a union shop or not. employers threatening to fire employees if they form a union is a violation of federal law.

exactly. it's one of the many examples of how Unions bend the coercive power of the state to their advantage. but that wasn't the question. If a workplace can make union membership a condition of employment, why - rightfully - can't it make lack of union membership a condition of employment? what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

are you seriously going with the warped logic of conservative? the dues go for administration and enforcement of the contract. no one is having a gun held to their heads.

Open Secrets' breakdown of SEIU expenditures for 2008:

Total Receipts $31,219,502
Total Spent (view expenditures) $47,404,886
Begin Cash on Hand $18,191,098
End Cash on Hand $2,005,715
Debts $109,523
Independent Expenditures $36,098,456
Date of last report December 31, 2008
Contributions to federal candidates (list recipients) (94% to Democrats, 6% to Republicans) $2,285,850
Contributions from individual donors of $200 or more ( list donors) $22,972




now, this is only counting direct contributions to candidates (5 and 10,000 increments), not all the advertising etc; are you going to tell me that contributions of under $200 came to $2,262,000?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Yes, I pointed out to you the projections underestimated the amount by $50 billion a year. Our tax cuts to the wealthy average about $150 billion a year.

Yep, that $150 billion would have dropped the February defict from $222 billion all the way down to $72 billion.

Now, you just have to figure out how to lower the deficit in the other 11 months.

You could confiscate every penny the "wealthy" make and still not make a dent in Obama's deficit. He's like my ex-wife and thinks that as long as their are checks in the checkbook, there has to be money in the bank. That's what we get for electing someone with zero experience.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

trust me my friend, you are making yourself look foolish...the dues that are being sent to the union are being sent on BEHALF OF AN EMPLOYEE(S), OUT OF WAGES THAT HAVE BEEN EARNED, WAGES WHICH THE TAXPAYERS HAVE NO CLAIM OVER...just because the government sends the union a check to cover these dues, doesnt mean the money has reverted back to the government/taxpayers, it still is being paid out of wages THAT HAVE BEEN EARNED, AND AGAIN, THAT THE GOVERNMENT/TAXPAYERS HAVE NO CLAIM OVER. seriously, what is so hard here for you to understand? do you go to your local deli, get a pound of roast beef, pay the owner the cost of that roast beef, then turn around and tell him that since the money is coming from you, that he can't spend it how he pleases? do you get to put restrictions on how he spends it? i don't think so.

Let's see how excited those people are when they have to write the check to those unions and trust me kid you don't have a clue as wot what you are talking about. The money goes directly from the taxpayer to the department heads to the unions. The employees don't get to see the money.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Don't you ever get tired of making stuff up, conservative?

I get tired of your one sentence response that ignores content. You telling me that payroll deductions aren't going to the unions? Man, the support for 12% of the work force is quite interesting here.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Well, we spend 43% of the world's total. It's still pretty significant.

true, but it is NOT more than the rest of the owrld combined... so Cat was either ignorant of the facts, or lied.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

You'd think they'd at least agree that joining a union should be a choice.

No, they just enjoy supporting union thugs and buying the liberal agenda. Wonder what it is that creates such brainwashing?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

You don't add the $3 trillion cost of the two decade long wars we are fighting and put on the tab, I see.

if you have a source that refures mine, feel free to link to it. Otherwise, I brand you either misinformed, or lying.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

true, but it is NOT more than the rest of the owrld combined... so Cat was either ignorant of the facts, or lied.

Catawba makes up so many different things it is hard to tell whether it is ignorance or a lie.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

exactly. it's one of the many examples of how Unions bend the coercive power of the state to their advantage. but that wasn't the question. If a workplace can make union membership a condition of employment, why - rightfully - can't it make lack of union membership a condition of employment? what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander?
because doing so violates the rights of the workers, is a violation of federal law.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Open Secrets' breakdown of SEIU expenditures for 2008:

Total Receipts $31,219,502
Total Spent (view expenditures) $47,404,886
Begin Cash on Hand $18,191,098
End Cash on Hand $2,005,715
Debts $109,523
Independent Expenditures $36,098,456
Date of last report December 31, 2008
Contributions to federal candidates (list recipients) (94% to Democrats, 6% to Republicans) $2,285,850
Contributions from individual donors of $200 or more ( list donors) $22,972




now, this is only counting direct contributions to candidates (5 and 10,000 increments), not all the advertising etc; are you going to tell me that contributions of under $200 came to $2,262,000?
what exactly is this post supposed to prove?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Let's see how excited those people are when they have to write the check to those unions and trust me kid you don't have a clue as wot what you are talking about. The money goes directly from the taxpayer to the department heads to the unions. The employees don't get to see the money.
the more you blabber on with this train of thought, the more foolish you sound, trust me kid.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

the more you blabber on with this train of thought, the more foolish you sound, trust me kid.

LOL, love being called a kid by the "one liner" king. What is it about liberals that creates such loyalty to the union thugs? Do you have so little initiative and drive that you would resort to giving up your rights to someone else whose sole purpose is to retain power over you?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

LOL, love being called a kid by the "one liner" king. What is it about liberals that creates such loyalty to the union thugs? Do you have so little initiative and drive that you would resort to giving up your rights to someone else whose sole purpose is to retain power over you?
keep blabbering on, you don't know what you are talking about, as has been proven over and over, you are making yourself look foolish.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

keep blabbering on, you don't know what you are talking about, as has been proven over and over, you are making yourself look foolish.

Look, if you don't want to answer the questions, just say so? Don't blame you as it is hard to defend the indefensible. One of these days you are going to look back and ask yourself why did I waste so much time working in a union shop when I could have done so much more or on the other hand you will do what so many liberals do, blame someone else for their own personal failures of choice.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Look, if you don't want to answer the questions, just say so? Don't blame you as it is hard to defend the indefensible. One of these days you are going to look back and ask yourself why did I waste so much time working in a union shop when I could have done so much more or on the other hand you will do what so many liberals do, blame someone else for their own personal failures of choice.
i love working in a union shop, making a fair wage with decent benefits...i love working in a union shop where i have a voice ....i love working in a union shop where the bargaining committee and the plant management can sit down and discuss issues...i love working in a union shop that has MORE WORK THAN IT KNOWS WHAT TO DO WITH...nah, definitely not a waste of time...decent wage and benefits, job security, and process to resolve any grievances i may have..thank GOD FOR UNIONS...definitely will not have any regrets. UNION PROUD
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

i love working in a union shop, making a fair wage with decent benefits...i love working in a union shop where i have a voice ....i love working in a union shop where the bargaining committee and the plant management can sit down and discuss issues...i love working in a union shop that has MORE WORK THAN IT KNOWS WHAT TO DO WITH...nah, definitely not a waste of time...decent wage and benefits, job security, and process to resolve any grievances i may have..thank GOD FOR UNIONS...definitely will not have any regrets. UNION PROUD

Yep, no risk and no reward for your hard work, just a wage slave. Unions give the appearance they are for the employee when the reality is they are in this for their own benefit. What are does your union leadership make? I was given some great advice a long time ago, "never look back and say you are sorry for anything that you did or decision you made" and that is so true. That is something you will face years from now when you realize how unions have kept you down and you are going to wonder why I wasted my money on that kind of support. You have no clue whether or not you will have regrets today because you refuse to accept advice from those who have been there.

You seem to have so little regard for yourself just like all union workers that you delegate authority to others to make decisions for you. How do you know you couldn't do better outside the union? What is a decent wage for you and what happens when those wages don't keep up with what you want or need? You are limiting yourself because of the belief in unions. That is brainwashing on the part of unions. You are better than you are willing to accept.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Yep, no risk and no reward for your hard work, just a wage slave. Unions give the appearance they are for the employee when the reality is they are in this for their own benefit. What are does your union leadership make? I was given some great advice a long time ago, "never look back and say you are sorry for anything that you did or decision you made" and that is so true. That is something you will face years from now when you realize how unions have kept you down and you are going to wonder why I wasted my money on that kind of support. You have no clue whether or not you will have regrets today because you refuse to accept advice from those who have been there.

You seem to have so little regard for yourself just like all union workers that you delegate authority to others to make decisions for you. How do you know you couldn't do better outside the union? What is a decent wage for you and what happens when those wages don't keep up with what you want or need? You are limiting yourself because of the belief in unions. That is brainwashing on the part of unions. You are better than you are willing to accept.
lol...do you know how foolish you sound? again, speaking of things of which you have no knowledge, no background, and obviously no clue about.
 
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