• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

SectorGraph.phtml



Koch Industries gave Walker $43,000 in direct contributions, then looked in the other pocket coughed up another $1 mill for the Republican Governors association. So what did the govs do you ask? Do what Repugs do best, run lying adds mostly against Walkers opponent, to the tune of $5 mill.

One of the first shots in the drive for a CORP AMERICA headed by the heirs to the principal founder of the John birch Society, David and Charles Koch.

Wake up America, or you will be a working for Koch Industries or one of its subsidiaries, such as the “Americans for Prosperity Foundation”. Who has tentacles in 32 states so far and growing. Whose main job is reversing environmental laws, eliminate unions.That is all.:2wave:

WALKER, SCOTT | Follow The Money

Private business employs people who pay taxes, pays taxes themselves, contributes to charities all without taxpayer money.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Show me some taxpayer’s money the unions dumped in the Wisconsin race. The Republican Governors Association, managed to run $5 million worth of ads in the state after Koch wrote a million-dollar check for them though. Then Koch Industries, through its PAC, donated $43,000 to Mr. Walker's campaign.

So, how is Koch responsible for that other 4 million, exactly???
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

You have been shown over and over how taxpayer money gets to the unions, you choose to ignore it.
once someone has performed a service, and recieved payment for services rendered, the money they recieve is called WAGES...i know this is a hard concept for you to grasp, but please try, and when they recieve those wages, these wages are THEIR OWN TO SPEND AS THEY SEE FIT....just because you may have been the one to pay them, THAT DOESNT GIVE YOU ANY RIGHT TO TELL THEM HOW THEY SHOULD SPEND IT....i know i've explained this to you befoe, and i can't believe you are going down this road again. it is quite simply NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS HOW THE MONEY IS SPENT.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

once someone has performed a service, and recieved payment for services rendered, the money they recieve is called WAGES...i know this is a hard concept for you to grasp, but please try, and when they recieve those wages, these wages are THEIR OWN TO SPEND AS THEY SEE FIT....just because you may have been the one to pay them, THAT DOESNT GIVE YOU ANY RIGHT TO TELL THEM HOW THEY SHOULD SPEND IT....i know i've explained this to you befoe, and i can't believe you are going down this road again. it is quite simply NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS HOW THE MONEY IS SPENT.

But it is ok for unions to tell them what they have to spend it on, right? Of course in your world union dues is money well spent.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

But it is ok for unions to tell them what they have to spend it on, right? Of course in your world union dues is money well spent.
and i know i've explained this to you before as well, when you apply for a job at a shop that is unionized, you are made aware of your obligations, to join the union within 30 days, and you are made aware of the amount of your union dues...it is at this point, if you have a problem with working in a union shop, that you can get up and say no thanks, and take your leave. you have a choice, it is when you hire in. and of course, union dues are well spent..duh...
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

and i know i've explained this to you before as well, when you apply for a job at a shop that is unionized, you are made aware of your obligations, to join the union within 30 days, and you are made aware of the amount of your union dues...it is at this point, if you have a problem with working in a union shop, that you can get up and say no thanks, and take your leave. you have a choice, it is when you hire in. and of course, union dues are well spent..duh...

Exactly, forced union membership to get a job is ok with you as well, right? If you want to work you have to join the union? Guess the 15 million unemployed Americans won't have a problem with a few more funded by the taxpayers, right?

As for union dues being well spent, interesting that less than 12% of the work force is now unionized but that 12% spends a lot of money especially on democrat candidates to influence elections. Of course you claim none of your union dues goes to political campaigns so apparently the money just comes from those union printing presses? Doubt you realize how foolish you sound.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

So, how is Koch responsible for that other 4 million, exactly???

or more to the point; 1 million to support republican governor campaigns.... there are 50 states... where did the extra $4,980,000 of that 5 mil come from?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

no, Randel claims that unions don't spend dues on political activities, that all those millions come from voluntary extra "donations" by union members. but he hasn't explained how, in light of that claim, the Walker bill is a "union busting" bill designed to weaken union political power. given that it only effected dues, and not voluntary donations, the Wisconsin bill couldn't possibly have had the effect he is claiming for it.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

no, Randel claims that unions don't spend dues on political activities, that all those millions come from voluntary extra "donations" by union members. but he hasn't explained how, in light of that claim, the Walker bill is a "union busting" bill designed to weaken union political power. given that it only effected dues, and not voluntary donations, the Wisconsin bill couldn't possibly have had the effect he is claiming for it.

Doesn't look like Randel knows what is even in the bill but because randel was told that it was anti union that is all that is necessary to know because we all know unions always tell the truth. Wonder if randel would appreciate having a child indoctrinated like unions are doing in Wisconsin? Let's say the Christian Right was indoctrinating one of randel's children, my bet is randel would go ballistic.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Exactly, forced union membership to get a job is ok with you as well, right? If you want to work you have to join the union? Guess the 15 million unemployed Americans won't have a problem with a few more funded by the taxpayers, right?

As for union dues being well spent, interesting that less than 12% of the work force is now unionized but that 12% spends a lot of money especially on democrat candidates to influence elections. Of course you claim none of your union dues goes to political campaigns so apparently the money just comes from those union printing presses? Doubt you realize how foolish you sound.
the only fool here is you conservative, and i will gladly take the demerits if a mod wishes to hit me with them...you speak of things that you have no knowledge of, and when challenged, everyone of your opponents suddenly become knuckledragging neanderthals who could benefit from your brand of 'wisdom'....sorry, i don't consider it to be 'forced membership', as i had a CHOICE when i applied with my company...the first thing i was asked when i had my interview was ' do you have any problem with working in a union shop?' no i didnt...the second question i was asked was asked/told was' you will have two hours of straight time pay per month deducted from your wages for union dues, do you have a problem with this? no, no i did not.

there was no attempt at deception on anyone's part, it was made clear to me from the very start that the job i was trying to get was in a unionized shop, and that i would be responsible for union dues...NOTHING WAS FORCED.


later on after i became chairperson of the plant bargaining committee, management would ask me to sit in with potential groups of new hires , to explain the union to them, and how things worked....part of that discussion included from the get go...this is a union shop, does anyone here have a problem working in a union shop or with the UAW? The second thing i mentioned was their union dues, how much, and when they would come out. so these folks had a CHOICE at this point . i never had one person stand up and leave when i mentioned that it was a union shop and that they would be responsible for dues...NOT A ONE.

finally, i've explained a million and one times where the money for political activities comes from, you choose to ignore facts and continue to enjoy your fantasy of where you THIINK they come from.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

and i know i've explained this to you before as well, when you apply for a job at a shop that is unionized, you are made aware of your obligations, to join the union within 30 days, and you are made aware of the amount of your union dues...it is at this point, if you have a problem with working in a union shop, that you can get up and say no thanks, and take your leave. you have a choice, it is when you hire in. and of course, union dues are well spent..duh...

How public unions work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su4PwZCWUdg&feature=player_embedded
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

no, Randel claims that unions don't spend dues on political activities, that all those millions come from voluntary extra "donations" by union members. but he hasn't explained how, in light of that claim, the Walker bill is a "union busting" bill designed to weaken union political power. given that it only effected dues, and not voluntary donations, the Wisconsin bill couldn't possibly have had the effect he is claiming for it.
cp, i've provided links in various threads, if you are seriously interested, look up my posts and find them...yes, walker is trying to weaken the unions, hoping that people won't pay their dues, thus weakening the union, hurting their ability to organize, and effectively negotiate contracts.. and this is only the first step, i'm sure he is looking for a way to include all unions, public and private sectors, in this plan.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Doesn't look like Randel knows what is even in the bill but because randel was told that it was anti union that is all that is necessary to know because we all know unions always tell the truth. Wonder if randel would appreciate having a child indoctrinated like unions are doing in Wisconsin? Let's say the Christian Right was indoctrinating one of randel's children, my bet is randel would go ballistic.

no, i've known randel for a minute, and he's smarter and more independent than you are giving him credit for.

he's just wrong about unions :) he joined the UAW about the time it was finishing the destruction of the American Auto industry, and methinks perhaps he worked himself a bit hard attempting to defend his new organization from quite alot of (well deserved) attack.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

no, i've known randel for a minute, and he's smarter and more independent than you are giving him credit for.

he's just wrong about unions :) he joined the UAW about the time it was finishing the destruction of the American Auto industry, and methinks perhaps he worked himself a bit hard attempting to defend his new organization from quite alot of (well deserved) attack.
thanks for the compliment...i think?:mrgreen:
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

cp, i've provided links in various threads, if you are seriously interested, look up my posts and find them...yes, walker is trying to weaken the unions, hoping that people won't pay their dues, thus weakening the union, hurting their ability to organize, and effectively negotiate contracts.. and this is only the first step, i'm sure he is looking for a way to include all unions, public and private sectors, in this plan.

why would that effect the unions? firstly, if people are giving them untold millions in private donations (and i would love to see any support for that), then it's not like they're going to stop paying dues (like they did in Indiana). Secondly, since those people are giving their own money freely, the bill has no effect on them, which makes the contention that this will weaken unions silly.

your arguments are mutually exclusive, old friend :).

as for "you're sure he's looking for a way to include all unions", i would doubt that quite a bit. private unions aren't the ones threatening local and state governments; public ones are. public and private unions are very different beasts; not a little because the private sector ones are obliged to at least want to keep their company above water.

but i tell you what, if Walker ever moves to ban collective bargaining for private unions at private companies, then i will join you on the picket line. :)
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

seriously? andrew klavan?:lamo just move on now if this is all you have got

this is called the "ad sourcinem" fallacy ;)
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

the only fool here is you conservative, and i will gladly take the demerits if a mod wishes to hit me with them...you speak of things that you have no knowledge of, and when challenged, everyone of your opponents suddenly become knuckledragging neanderthals who could benefit from your brand of 'wisdom'....sorry, i don't consider it to be 'forced membership', as i had a CHOICE when i applied with my company...the first thing i was asked when i had my interview was ' do you have any problem with working in a union shop?' no i didnt...the second question i was asked was asked/told was' you will have two hours of straight time pay per month deducted from your wages for union dues, do you have a problem with this? no, no i did not.

there was no attempt at deception on anyone's part, it was made clear to me from the very start that the job i was trying to get was in a unionized shop, and that i would be responsible for union dues...NOTHING WAS FORCED.


later on after i became chairperson of the plant bargaining committee, management would ask me to sit in with potential groups of new hires , to explain the union to them, and how things worked....part of that discussion included from the get go...this is a union shop, does anyone here have a problem working in a union shop or with the UAW? The second thing i mentioned was their union dues, how much, and when they would come out. so these folks had a CHOICE at this point . i never had one person stand up and leave when i mentioned that it was a union shop and that they would be responsible for dues...NOT A ONE.

finally, i've explained a million and one times where the money for political activities comes from, you choose to ignore facts and continue to enjoy your fantasy of where you THIINK they come from.

For someone who is such an expert on unions you really have no clue as to the inner workings of unions. I have more experience in unions than you ever will have being involved in union negotiations on union contracts. Unions spend millions and millions of dollars on campaigns and yet you still believe all those "donations" are voluntary. You are naive beyond words.

As for choice, no question about it, people are told going in that this is a union shop and you have a choice to either take the job or find another one. Interesting that choice is important but other choices aren't depending the situation and whether or not it supports liberal causes. I suggest that you read the Walker bill probably for the first time and tell me what is wrong with that bill. I then expect you to dodge once again the question as to why Wisconsin taxpayers should support full union bargaining rights at the state level but Federal union employees funded by the national taxpayers don't have those rights?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

If we didn't have crooked politicians....if the negotiators sitting at the table with unions were honest...we would not be having this discussion. Negotiators gave away the store. Bought and paid for with union dollars.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

this is called the "ad sourcinem" fallacy ;)
:lol: dude, it's andrew fricking klavan...you will forgive me of course if i don't give him much credit as a source of how things work. ....anyhoo, good talkin' to ya cp, i'll pick up with ya later, stay safe my friend. :peace
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

seriously? andrew klavan?:lamo just move on now if this is all you have got

what exactly does Andrew Klavan have wrong? Specifics??
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

You have been shown over and over how taxpayer money gets to the unions, you choose to ignore it.

Yeah, we've been shown. But it's all distortion and make believe.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom