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Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Ikari said:
Yes, they can quit.
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And go to a Charter school or private school that doesn't require union dues.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

iamitter said:
Except, the top bracket doesn't include only people earning millions, but anything 375k or above.
I give nearly as much money to charity as I do in taxes and I don't earn millions. I am not selfish at all.
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We should stop that and send it to our government instead. They are so much better at spending our money than we are. {sarcasim}
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:
Right, if you want a job in Wisconsin as a teacher you are forced into joining a union and thus forced into paying union dues thus unions telling the teachers how they have to spend part of their wages. Is there any doubt why liberal Democrats support unions?

Leading Union Political Campaign Contributors
1990-2010

Democrats Republicans

American Fed. of State, County, & Municipal Employees $40,281,900 $547,700
Intel Brotherhood of Electrical Workers 29,705,600 679,000
National Education Association 27,679,300 2,005,200

Etc.

Source: Center for Responsive Politics, Washington, D.C.
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Private schools and charter schools do not require unions. You can't still be a teacher and not pay union dues.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Ikari said:
Yes, they can quit.
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And that would make you happy? If they aren't working where do they get their income to live? I have absolutely no problem with free choice and if the union teachers had a choice whether or not to join the unions then that would be fine, however in Wisconsin it is a close shop meaning they are forced into union membership, a concept you seem to have a hard time understanding.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

theplaydrive said:
Private schools and charter schools do not require unions. You can't still be a teacher and not pay union dues.
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Thus part of the reason that private schools and charter schools are becoming more popular.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Ikari said:
Yes, they can quit.
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So they cannot keep their job unless they pay their union dues ... I agree they have a choice, I'm not arguing they don't.

So taxpayer money goes to the public sector via a line item in the budget in the form of public teacher salary - a portion (%) of that salary then is required to go to the union in the form of dues (or the teacher can quit and that portion will not go to the union), and the union then uses that money for various thing, one of them being support for Democrats elections who are sympathetic towards the unions.

So follow the money... :shrug:
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:
Thus part of the reason that private schools and charter schools are becoming more popular.
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I agree. So teachers can still get jobs without being 'forced' to join unions. Problem solved.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

QUOTE The Barbarian

First lets remember we are only talking about public unions not private unions ..
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Would you put the Teamsters Union under the public union category?

But for the sake of argument, lets go along with your idea that the public union is not funded by the taxpayer.
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chuckles is sitting the stage for his strawman.


Ok, glad you’ve seen the light.:2wave:

If that is the case then I guess everyone saying that Walker is trying to destroy the unions, is a complete outright lie.
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Chuckles starts building his strawman here.


Where did I say that Walker was trying to destroy the unions? He is trying to destroy COLLECTIVE BARGAINING, to selected unions ,in the state of Wisconsin. Remember he exempted some of the police and fire depts locals.


It's simple really, seeing Walker only controls the tax dollars generated by the state of Wisconsin, and the public unions are “NOT” funded by taxpayer's dollars, then there can be no possible way for Walker to even try to destroy the union simply because Walker has absolutely no control over the funding of that union.
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a crescendo of straw.


Kinda reminds me of Pink Floyds another brick on the wall but in this case its, another bale of straw onto the pile…pile those suckerS up. :lamo



You can accuse him of attempting to lower the wages and benefits of Wisconsin state/city workers, but you cannot accuse him of trying to break the union, because if the union “ISN'T” funded by taxpayer's dollars, and it's only taxpayer's dollars that Walker controls. he is powerless to break the union.
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Almost there

Comon chuckles, you can do better than this. Point me to where I said that Walker is trying to break, or destroy unions?


In fact with your reasoning, seeing the union isn't funded by the taxpayer, then Walker could fire every unionized city/state worker, and the union should continue to thrive.
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FINELY a masterpiece of straw...i,m BUSHed.heh, heh, heh


Naw, he is just trying to destroy collective bargaining for the unions that didn’t back him in his election…Hhmm…it seems he exempted police and firefighters from his attack on unions; wonder why that was? it couldn’t be because four locals of the police and firefighters backed him for gov could it? Surely not.:roll:
 
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Ikari said:
Nice deflect. No one is being force. They all agreed to the contract when they took the job.
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I understand your point, but it is certainly concerning when the only true monopoly in the world holds this kind of power.

If you want to be a law enforcement officer, you have no choice but to pay these union dues. As the public sector grows, the choice of the individual to not be a part of these “voluntary” organizations certainly diminishes.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

theplaydrive said:
I can see your point. This is where I have a different take.

It's not the taxpayer's money that being forced to pay unions, it's the public worker's money that's being forced. In other words, when the money passes from government to public employee, it still becomes the property of the public employee (to me, that exchange is the same transfer of property in every scenario, forced to join or not). Therefore, public worker's are forced to spend their private property (their wages) on a union.
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I dont necessarily see a complete transfer of property when the state never gives the portion of the earnings to the employee and instead takes them out and funnels them directly to the unions with the employee having no say. but at least I see where you're coming from now.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Ikari said:
That's pretty conceited if you ask me.
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:confused: conceited? how so?


One has the right to contract.
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That's right, in today's world though who knows what contract law even is anymore, after Obama got done trashing it.

When an individual accepts the job at a public school, they do so my accepting the contract associated with it.
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Why can't a teacher negotiate their own contract personally?

That was their choice.
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And there is the "forced" argument. Either join the union, or flip burgers.

Don't take that away from them. They could have not accepted the job if they felt the terms of the contract are not what they want.
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Oh nice, either join or forget the job. And they say unions don't strong arm....

But by signing the contract and exercising their right to contract, they thus agree to the terms of the contract. It's not hidden
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yeah, but it's not really a choice as you portray it either.

it's not like they didn't agree to it and then all of a sudden money is disappearing out of their paycheck. That would be theft. They make the choice to accept the terms of contract. That's end of story.
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Your argument fly's out the window with 2 aspects...1. Card check - if that passes then you can not agree to it, and still be forced to vote for it. 2. When you declare "end of story" you have lost the argument.

j-mac
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

donc said:
Indulge me and explain how"public unions get their money from public employees funded by the taxpayers".The key word is funded.
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I have an idea. Let's only raise property taxes on public workers. That way they will be funding more of their own raises and benefits.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

disneydude said:
Have you not been paying attention to what has been going on in Wisconsin and other states? The GOP is clearly waging war on the middle class and the workers of America.
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Actually he is trying to avoid massive lay-offs. It's the union bosses waging war on the middle class.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Ockham said:
So they cannot keep their job unless they pay their union dues ... I agree they have a choice, I'm not arguing they don't.

So taxpayer money goes to the public sector via a line item in the budget in the form of public teacher salary - a portion (%) of that salary then is required to go to the union in the form of dues (or the teacher can quit and that portion will not go to the union), and the union then uses that money for various thing, one of them being support for Democrats elections who are sympathetic towards the unions.

So follow the money... :shrug:
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Of courses it would be ok if it went to a Republican that was sympathetic to unions, like the four police and fire dept locals that backed Walker.:roll:
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

MaggieD said:
In my opinion, the only way taxpayer dollars fund the public sector unions that cover teachers in Wisconsin is through the union's wholly-owned insurance company that provides health coverage for 2/3 of teachers in Wisconsin. That mandatory insurance carrier was bargained into union contracts. That's changed now. With the new legislation, there will be competition, and municipalities are confident this will result in significant savings.

If that particular scheme is what you're talking about, then I would agree with you that unions are partially funded by taxpayer dollars.

If you are saying that their union dues are taxpayer dollars, then I disagree. Teachers are paid a salary. Once that salary is in their hands, it's their money.

Oops. Here's the link for information about the union's enforced health plan: More districts now could drop insurance arm of teachers union - JSOnline
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and people keep saying that taking away collective bargaining is all about union busting and not the money.

More districts now could drop insurance arm of teachers union - JSOnline
Because WEA Trust is named as the carrier in so many school district contracts, it has been largely shielded from such competition in the past, said Andy Serio, a group health insurance consultant.
"There literally is no competition if you're named in the collective bargaining agreement, so that would be the most dramatic effect on WEA," he said. "Because clearly, if you're in a collective bargaining agreement, you're in."
At the beginning of this fiscal year, last July 1, the Brown Deer School District began using a different carrier after years with WEA Trust. The district saved $170,000 in just one year - the equivalent of at least two teachers
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

j-mac said:
Those teachers who did this should be charged with child abuse.


j-mac
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Notice how the supporters of unions ignore videos like this one? Goes to show just how leftwing many are, many that we give the benefit of doubt. This is just like Nazi Germany where people were brainwashed by an ideology and suffered as a result. People in Wisconsin are going to suffer as a result of this indoctrination and any "success" from their efforts. Unions are a drain on the economy of anything they touch and have outlived their usefulness.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

donc said:
Of courses it would be ok if it went to a Republican that was sympathetic to unions, like the four police and fire dept locals that backed Walker.:roll:
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Support for pubic union full collective bargaining rights is never valid regardless of who they support. Want to bet that their union dues went to the Scott Walker campaign?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:
This thread isn't about the teamsters or what is going on in Wasila. Just admit you are wrong and let's move on
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Thread title is “Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights “...Check. :roll:


But,but,it is about the public sector isn't it? The last I heard Police were considered public sector employees, unless somehow, someway, a winger gov or mayer manages to Wackenhut the police dept.:2wave:
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:
Support for pubic union full collective bargaining rights is never valid regardless of who they support. Want to bet that their union dues went to the Scott Walker campaign?
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Sure, whats the bet?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

j-mac said:
It really is semantics. The more pressing problem is with the relationship between unions and the democrat party.

j-mac
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bump....:2wave:
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

donc said:
Sure, whats the bet?
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Then you should have no problem proving that union money went to Walker as it should be public record in Wisconsin.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

donc said:
Thread title is “Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights “...Check. :roll:


But,but,it is about the public sector isn't it? The last I heard Police were considered public sector employees, unless somehow, someway, a winger gov or mayer manages to Wackenhut the police dept.:2wave:
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You must be so proud

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su4PwZCWUdg&feature=player_embedded
 
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