Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

apdst · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
Glad you feel that way! Then I'm sure you won't mind if the tax cuts for the wealthy have to be taken to the chopping block during our budget cuts. :sun

The Dems were so busy trying to **** the rich folks last year, that they let a payroll tax break expire and raise payroll taxes on millions of working folks and businesses.

All I got to say to that is,

cpwill · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

ludahai said:
Actually, a budget also includes revenues, and ideally, in a budget, revenues will match expenditures... no wonder why so many are failing at the budgeting processes... there are TWO SIDES to it...

except that one of those sides is much more responsive. for every dollar you cut, you get a dollar of cuts. for every dollar you try to increase revenues..... you are not guaranteed anything like that. it is questionable at this point whether we could raise anything significant in extra taxes. in the meantime, spending is exploding; if you were to simply take the Clinton budgets and expand them every year with inflation, we would have a balanced budget this year. what we have is a spending problem, not a taxing one.

ludahai · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

cpwill said:
except that one of those sides is much more responsive. for every dollar you cut, you get a dollar of cuts. for every dollar you try to increase revenues..... you are not guaranteed anything like that. it is questionable at this point whether we could raise anything significant in extra taxes. in the meantime, spending is exploding; if you were to simply take the Clinton budgets and expand them every year with inflation, we would have a balanced budget this year. what we have is a spending problem, not a taxing one.

No disagreement. Just pointing out that there are two sides to the budgeting equation...

haymarket · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

chevydriver1123 said:
Attempting to unionize in retail has always failed, retail is the type of business that has too much turnover to make a union worth it.

If that is true - and I am NOT saying it is - but if that is true, why would Wal Mart fight so hard to the point of closing profitable stores rather than allow a union? If you are right, this factor would doom the union regardless.

haymarket · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

cpwill said:
except that one of those sides is much more responsive. for every dollar you cut, you get a dollar of cuts. for every dollar you try to increase revenues..... you are not guaranteed anything like that. it is questionable at this point whether we could raise anything significant in extra taxes. in the meantime, spending is exploding; if you were to simply take the Clinton budgets and expand them every year with inflation, we would have a balanced budget this year. what we have is a spending problem, not a taxing one.

That is not true.

Just yesterday I attended a legislative briefing at the Detroit Medical Center. We were informed that in the state budget plan for Governor Snyder, they want to cut over $20 million state dollars from the GME program which trains young doctors and does so mainly on the eastern side of our state. These same doctors in training are a disproportional source of care for the poor which MUST BE treated under the law. If Snyder has his way because he believes like you do that a dollar in cut is indeed a dollar saved, he is a fool. With that $20 million in Michigan money comes over $50 million in federal money. That means that Michigan poor people are being helped to the tune of $70 million dollars via a state expenditure of only $20 million. If we give in to your ideology, we cut $20 million for the Michigan budget, lose another $50 million from the feds and are still going to have to find a way to deliver that same $70 million worth of medical care to the poor and indigent because it is law.

It could well end up costing the State more than the theoretical savings.

The same is true of the state earned income tax credit for the working poor. Snyder wants to cut that also. In the district I work for, that would take over $5 million dollars from the pockets of the working poor. Many would then simply go on more expensive welfare programs costing the state even more in the long run. I am at home for the weekend and do not have the figures in front of me but I will be glad to put them up on Tuesday when I get back to the capitol. The figure I remember reading was something under $500 in tax credits for the poor while putting them on state welfare programs would be much much more expensive.

So in this case, for every dollar you cut, you may have to spend much more down the road.

EarlzP · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

What we really need is for all Americans regardless of political party to wake up up and take a deep breath of reality our jobs and the future of our economy is under attack from within our politIcal structure. Breaking the unions by attacking collective bargaining will be one more nail in the economic coffin facing our nation. Our job opportunities along with our economy is being shipped overseas

iamitter said:
I'd start at improving their skills with education and making themselves more employable.

HTML:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/may2010/stud-m28.shtml
 
American college graduates find themselves in the harshest economic climate in at least a generation, according to a recently released report by the Economic Policy Institute (EPI). With unemployment levels for new college graduates and non-degreed youth nearly double their 2007 rates, data suggest that a college degree no longer ensures financial stability for graduates in the US.

HTML:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/02/23/us-usa-economy-jobs-poll-idUSTRE61M1OL20100223

In findings that appear to paint a darker employment picture than official U.S. data, Gallup estimated that about 30 million Americans are underemployed, meaning either jobless or able to find only part-time work.

Underemployed people spent 36 percent less on household purchases than their fully employed neighbors in January, while six out of 10 were not hopeful about their chances of finding adequate work in the coming month, the poll said.

Donc · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

haymarket said:
That is not true.

Just yesterday I attended a legislative briefing at the Detroit Medical Center. We were informed that in the state budget plan for Governor Snyder, they want to cut over $20 million state dollars from the GME program which trains young doctors and does so mainly on the eastern side of our state. These same doctors in training are a disproportional source of care for the poor which MUST BE treated under the law. If Snyder has his way because he believes like you do that a dollar in cut is indeed a dollar saved, he is a fool. With that $20 million in Michigan money comes over $50 million in federal money. That means that Michigan poor people are being helped to the tune of $70 million dollars via a state expenditure of only $20 million. If we give in to your ideology, we cut $20 million for the Michigan budget, lose another $50 million from the feds and are still going to have to find a way to deliver that same $70 million worth of medical care to the poor and indigent because it is law.

It could well end up costing the State more than the theoretical savings.

The same is true of the state earned income tax credit for the working poor. Snyder wants to cut that also. In the district I work for, that would take over $5 million dollars from the pockets of the working poor. Many would then simply go on more expensive welfare programs costing the state even more in the long run. I am at home for the weekend and do not have the figures in front of me but I will be glad to put them up on Tuesday when I get back to the capitol. The figure I remember reading was something under $500 in tax credits for the poor while putting them on state welfare programs would be much much more expensive.

So in this case, for every dollar you cut, you may have to spend much more down the road.

In winger speak, that means they are succeeding in starving the beast. Cutting off state funds means less fed funds as well. WAHOO… in winger land it don’t get any better than that.

Less medical care=more poor people dying=less future care.

j-mac · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

haymarket said:
If that is true - and I am NOT saying it is - but if that is true, why would Wal Mart fight so hard to the point of closing profitable stores rather than allow a union? If you are right, this factor would doom the union regardless.

So please explain to us how unizing Wal Mart would keep costs on their products down, and create jobs.

j-mac

j-mac · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

donc said:
In winger speak, that means they are succeeding in starving the beast. Cutting off state funds means less fed funds as well. WAHOO… in winger land it don’t get any better than that.

Less medical care=more poor people dying=less future care.

Sounds remarkably close to Sustien, and the guy who wrote the population bomb back in the '70s....

j-mac

Sgt Meowenstein · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

TurtleDude said:
the right is to keep what you earn-not to be given back what is yours

those who pay more taxes ought to be given more government privileges or rights

Wow, what an unbelievably stupid post. That's your idea? Give more rights to rich people? What kind of rights do rich people deserve that lowly poor people don't? It's not enough that they buy politicians, influence laws and get away with tax breaks and cuts they don't deserve. Now they need special rights that average citizens don't deserve. That's real American of you.

haymarket · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

j-mac said:
So please explain to us how unizing Wal Mart would keep costs on their products down, and create jobs.

j-mac

That is NOT the point that was being made. My question was in direct reference to the statement from Chevydriver

Attempting to unionize in retail has always failed, retail is the type of business that has too much turnover to make a union worth it.

Again, if this is a true statement, why would WalMart spend lots of money fighting the union and closing profitable stores to stop them? If this statement is right, they should just sit back, let the union try to unionize them and then smile when the union fails because the claim of Chevydriver proves true.

j-mac · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Sgt Meowenstein said:
Wow, what an unbelievably stupid post. That's your idea? Give more rights to rich people? What kind of rights do rich people deserve that lowly poor people don't? It's not enough that they buy politicians, influence laws and get away with tax breaks and cuts they don't deserve. Now they need special rights that average citizens don't deserve. That's real American of you.

How about not anything special in their rights, how about just the right to be secure in their persons, effects, and property. See, you in the recipient class should learn quickly that the free ride is over.

j-mac

haymarket · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Sgt Meowenstein said:
Wow, what an unbelievably stupid post. That's your idea? Give more rights to rich people? What kind of rights do rich people deserve that lowly poor people don't? It's not enough that they buy politicians, influence laws and get away with tax breaks and cuts they don't deserve. Now they need special rights that average citizens don't deserve. That's real American of you.

Sgt. - Turtle is on record as supporting a plan which would strip away tens of millions of Americans right to vote because he does not believe they pay enough in federal taxes. He freely admits that such a plan is aimed at getting likely Democratic voters off the rolls. He takes great joy in knowing that his scheme would enshrine the Republican Party in power for a long long time.

Cold Highway · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

haymarket said:
If that is true - and I am NOT saying it is - but if that is true, why would Wal Mart fight so hard to the point of closing profitable stores rather than allow a union? If you are right, this factor would doom the union regardless.

Like I said, retail as a industry has constant turnover. Majority of part time workers are students and full timers typically use retail as a go between for another job or as a steady income until they find new work. Typically only management is constant which even that is incorrect at least in my experience it is. I've been in retail for 9 years (Assistant 1 yr and Mananger 3yrs) and I have witnesses tons of changes in mangement and upper levels of management eventually plans and goals don't work and change is needed because that is the nature of the retail beast. Unions only make sense in trade work and factory work because for the most part people stay in these types of jobs for most of their working lives.

Marshabar · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

The Democrats have trained a few generations of people to look first to the government for help. It is healthier and more profitable to look first to yourself and your family.

I know a man who against all good advice wrapped his 100+ year old house in plastic siding. He recently had to have a repair done which required getting into a wall. They found a nightmare of mold infesting all the walls. His first question? Is there a government program to pay to fix this? He really assumed there was.

If a person is always looking to the government for help they forget, or never learn, to think for themselves, to plan, to TAKE CARE.

If you want to know what living by your own wits and independent spirit is all about do some genealogical research. Find out what kind of people you came from. It is very inspiring and it gives confidence in the strength and ability that resides in you.

haymarket · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

chevydriver1123 said:
Like I said, retail as a industry has constant turnover. Majority of part time workers are students and full timers typically use retail as a go between for another job or as a steady income until they find new work. Typically only management is constant which even that is incorrect at least in my experience it is. I've been in retail for 9 years (Assistant 1 yr and Mananger 3yrs) and I have witnesses tons of changes in mangement and upper levels of management eventually plans and goals don't work and change is needed because that is the nature of the retail beast. Unions only make sense in trade work and factory work because for the most part people stay in these types of jobs for most of their working lives.

Chevy - I know your position and feelings on unions - however, I suspect that union leaders have access to the same information you are using to make these observations. They feel that they can make a viable run at this organizing of retail workers. And from the reaction of Wal Mart, I have to suspect they do also.

ThePlayDrive · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Marshabar said:
The Democrats have trained a few generations of people to look first to the government for help. It is healthier and more profitable to look first to yourself and your family.

I know a man who against all good advice wrapped his 100+ year old house in plastic siding. He recently had to have a repair done which required getting into a wall. They found a nightmare of mold infesting all the walls. His first question? Is there a government program to pay to fix this? He really assumed there was.

If a person is always looking to the government for help they forget, or never learn, to think for themselves, to plan, to TAKE CARE.

If you want to know what living by your own wits and independent spirit is all about do some genealogical research. Find out what kind of people you came from. It is very inspiring and it gives confidence in the strength and ability that resides in you.

I don't know any Democrat who thinks this way. In fact, they're pretty into the whole 'self-determination' thing. Also, isn't Bill Gates a Democrat?

Marshabar · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Anti: Social Conservatives, Neoconservatives, Hippies, Gun Grabbers, Apple People, Parental Groups, Truck and SUV Critics, Drug War, Federal Reserve, statists, Patriot Act
Pro Business, Private Sector Unions, Sound Money, Personal Liberty, Technology, Austrian Economics

I admire your specificity, Chevy.

Sgt Meowenstein · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

j-mac said:
How about not anything special in their rights, how about just the right to be secure in their persons, effects, and property. See, you in the recipient class should learn quickly that the free ride is over.

j-mac

Cons love to assume. I'm not on a free ride, champ. I pay my own way. Please don't pretend like you know a god damned thing about me.

apdst · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Sgt Meowenstein said:
Wow, what an unbelievably stupid post. That's your idea? Give more rights to rich people? What kind of rights do rich people deserve that lowly poor people don't?

What rights do rich people have that poor people don't?

It's not enough that they buy politicians, influence laws and get away with tax breaks and cuts they don't deserve. Now they need special rights that average citizens don't deserve. That's real American of you.

1) Why don't they deserve them and 2) What are those tax breaks and cuts?

Last time I checked, rich folks don' qualify for the earned income credit, the way poor people do.

Marshabar · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

theplaydrive said:
I don't know any Democrat who thinks this way. In fact, they're pretty into the whole 'self-determination' thing. Also, isn't Bill Gates a Democrat?

There are many kinds of Democrats including the very wealthiest Americans, both those who have made their own wealth and those who have inherited wealth. The leaders. They have trained an electorate to depend on them through tenure, unionization and entitlements.

Sgt Meowenstein · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

apdst said:
What rights do rich people have that poor people don't?

1) Why don't they deserve them and 2) What are those tax breaks and cuts?

Last time I checked, rich folks don' qualify for the earned income credit, the way poor people do.

Last time I checked, rich people don't need the earned income tax credit. So, what's your point? Now, back to the real point of my post, do you feel that rich people deserve special rights, like Mr.Turtle does?

ThePlayDrive · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Marshabar said:
There are many kinds of Democrats including the very wealthiest Americans, both those who have made their own wealth and those who have inherited wealth. The leaders. They have trained an electorate to depend on them through tenure, unionization and entitlements.

Most of the people I know are not 'leaders' of the Democratic Party and they do not embody the image you have painted of Democrats. The type of person you have described exists in all parties: some people don't live by 'their wits and independent spirit' by relying on welfare, others rely on their parents monetary support, others rely on their spouses (see 'trophy wife' and 'sugar daddy'). You would develop a more clear understanding of the Democratic Party, its constituents and its policies if you took the time to understand them.

apdst · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Sgt Meowenstein said:
Last time I checked, rich people don't need the earned income tax credit. So, what's your point? Now, back to the real point of my post, do you feel that rich people deserve special rights, like Mr.Turtle does?

What special rights do they have?

Also, why do non-rich people deserve the earned income credit? Seems to me they have a special right to pay no taxes; plus get a four-figure rebate every year. I mean, it's all about one paying one's fair share. Yes?

American · Mar 12, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Jetboogieman said:

Oh sure there is NEVER and collusion among those on the left, they stupidly work separately. :roll:

I think that's you wearing the tinhat trying to keep the truth out.

Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

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