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Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

haha. maybe you can look to have the last election replaced with a rasmussen poll. hell, lets do away with elections altogether and let things get decided by random telephone polling.

/sarcasm

Typical. The poll's results are not to your liking, so you dismiss them. Walker and a few Republican state Repubs won't be feeling the same as you when they get recalled.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

From what I understand there is also a recall for missing Representatives, so let's see which one occurs first? You seem to think that there is more union support than actually exists.

The evidence suggests there is. A conservative think tank polled Wisconsin and found 65% opposed to Walker stripping unions of their collective bargaining rights. His approval rating has dropped substantially. He is in big trouble.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Cool, accept my wager Sarge, Walker gets recalled I leave the website, he doesn't, you do?

Typical. The poll's results are not to your liking, so you dismiss them. Walker and a few Republican state Repubs won't be feeling the same as you when they get recalled.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Cool, accept my wager Sarge, Walker gets recalled I leave the website, he doesn't, you do?

I'll make a bet with ya. If Walker doesn't get recalled, then I'll let you choose my avatar for a month and if he does get recalled then I get to choose your avatar for a month. How does that sound?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Sure you can, if you live in Wisconsin, In 4 years. Just like we are going to change things in two by getting rid of Obama. Amazing the similarities, how does it feel to experience what we have experienced the last two years?

Whatever you've experienced in two years when Americans were finally guaranteed a fair shot at healthcare will be nothing compared to what I experienced for 8 years under an incompetent president who threw away my tax dollars on fruitless ventures.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Name one worthwhile education reform that teachers' unions have supported in the last 30 years, aside from those that directly benefited the teachers' union itself. And I'm not talking about grudgingly accepting certain reforms to avoid even more far-reaching reforms...I'd like to know one that they actually WANT, which doesn't benefit them personally.



Imagine that, public policy will be at the mercy of what elected officials want. I think that's called democracy.

Collective bargaining has two explicit goals: 1) Reduce the efficiency of government programs by increasing the cost of labor, and 2) Reduce the quality of labor by increasing job security.



What Weingarten fails to mention is that she only proposed this process as a way to head off more serious reform efforts. She was the head of the UFT since 1998; what took her so long to even make THIS grudging, token attempt to appear to be reasonable?



The other thing that she fails to mention is that most schools - including the ones where it's practically impossible to fire a teacher - already have a process like this, at least on paper. The problem is that it takes years to actually jump through all the hoops necessary to fire a teacher.



Exactly, the teachers' unions have no problem supporting reforms that benefit themselves, like smaller class sizes or increasing instructional time. The problem is all the other reforms that they vociferously oppose because the benefits accrue to the students rather than the teachers.



What an apropos way to end this essay. She thinks it's all about what kind of country we want...for the teachers. Our schools don't exist for the teachers' benefit, they exist to educate students.

"Do we want a country in which individuals are powerless, and hard-working people are denied the ability to earn decent wages and benefits?" No, we don't. So let's get rid of the teachers' unions so that we can get some meaningful education reform in our poorest school districts.


If smaller class size does not improve achievement, then why do test scores show the opposite? If increasing instruction time does not improve achievement, then why do test scores show the opposite? If increased teacher certification does not improve achievement, then why do test scores show the opposite?

If unions are bad for education, why do states without unions perform lower?
 
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Done :)

Now sarge....it's your turn..you sound awfully sure of yourself.

I'll make a bet with ya. If Walker doesn't get recalled, then I'll let you choose my avatar for a month and if he does get recalled then I get to choose your avatar for a month. How does that sound?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

This just made me throw up a little bit my mouth.

How can anyone spew a lie like this?


The CB is about the Union members pay and benefits....it has NOTHING to do with "reforming" or "improving" education.

You have swallowed a very large load of propaganda.
You're absolutely right. Even a lawyer for the NEA admits it's not about the kids but about the power.

Addressing the 2009 NEA Convention, Chanin admits, “It is not because we care about children and it is not because we have a vision of a great public school for every child. NEA and its affiliates are effective advocates because we have power.”

Here's the video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwxiRXqH_hQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
 
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Typical. The poll's results are not to your liking, so you dismiss them. Walker and a few Republican state Repubs won't be feeling the same as you when they get recalled.

Right, kind of like you dismissing polls on healthcare and the Obama agenda. You seem to pick and choose the polls you want to believe. how does it feel to have the tables turned on you?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

The evidence suggests there is. A conservative think tank polled Wisconsin and found 65% opposed to Walker stripping unions of their collective bargaining rights. His approval rating has dropped substantially. He is in big trouble.

However not all collective bargaining rights have been stripped, have they? So why distort the actual bill? Just goes to show how misinformation gains traction. Glad to see the Governor thinking about the taxpayers for a change.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

If smaller class size does not improve achievement, then why do test scores show the opposite. If increasing instruction time does not improve achievement, then why do test scores show the opposite. If increased teacher certification does not improve achievement, then why do test scores show the opposite.

I didn't say that those things don't improve achievement. I'm a big supporter of increasing instruction time, I think teacher certification is completely useless, and I think the jury is still out on smaller class sizes. My point is not that those reforms are necessarily bad, my point is that they all directly benefit the teachers' unions and so it isn't surprising to see them support it. What I asked is if you had an example of any education reform that the teachers unions have supported which DOESN'T line their own pockets.

Catawba said:
If unions are bad for education, why do states without unions perform lower in schoolastic achievement.

Because test scores are a proxy for how white your state is, due to systemic discrimination. Northern (whiter) states tend to be more unionized, so it isn't surprising that unionized states have higher test scores. But once you control for ethnicity, a state like Texas actually outperforms a state like Wisconsin across the board among all ethnicities.
iowahawk: Longhorns 17, Badgers 1
 
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

How many times are people going to fall for the Elites and their divide and conquer tactics like this union issue?

Can you see its one in a long laundry list of tactics to get Americans fighting among themselves, while the rich bankers rape you?

Becks slander of Ron Paul supporters as "nutty" and Beck's slander of MLK and liberal activists calling them "Marxists" right out of the 50's Red Scare, divide the working class handbook.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

It's called keeping the bigger picture so you don't get lost in petty little article competitions.

TWO POINT FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS of unfunded public pensions is neither petty nor little

2.5 trillion dollars IS the big picture

stay up
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

TWO POINT FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS of unfunded public pensions is neither petty nor little

2.5 trillion dollars IS the big picture

stay up

article competitions are petty and they don't solve budget problems.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

I didn't say that those things don't improve achievement. I'm a big supporter of increasing instruction time, I think teacher certification is completely useless, and I think the jury is still out on smaller class sizes. My point is not that those reforms are necessarily bad, my point is that they all directly benefit the teachers' unions and so it isn't surprising to see them support it. They don't support ANY education reform unless it lines their own pockets.

How does smaller class size and increased instruction time line their pockets?

Because test scores are a proxy for how white your state is, due to systemic problems in inner-city schools, and because northern (whiter) states tend to be more unionized. Once you control for ethnicity, a state like Texas actually outperforms a state like Wisconsin across the board.
iowahawk: Longhorns 17, Badgers 1

Imagine a right wing blogger having that opinion.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

The working class is not the enemy.

The Elites and the government, working in collusion, to deregulate big business, in fact, torpedoed our economy.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

How does smaller class size and increased instruction time line their pockets?

Smaller class size means hiring more teachers, which means more teachers paying union dues.
Increased instruction time means higher compensation, which gives the union more leverage to increase union dues.

Catawba said:
Imagine a right wing blogger having that opinion.

It's not an opinion, he backs it up with statistics which he clearly includes in the post. You don't have to take his word for it, you can look them up yourself on the NAEP website. It's all publicly available.
 
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Just heard an interview with WI house republican leader Fitzgerald on a local WI station and he said they came to this course of action because all of the republicans (even those that didn't originally want to take this action) in the senate had come to the realization that the democrats had no intention in making any concessions and coming back. They believed that the democrats were just stalling to allow as many union contracts to be renewed as possible and wait for recalls to be completed.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

that s the scapegoating GOP for ya!
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Smaller class size means hiring more teachers, which means more teachers paying union dues.
Increased instruction time means higher compensation, which gives the union more leverage to increase union dues.

So neither line teacher's pockets as you claim.

It's not an opinion, he backs it up with statistics which he clearly includes in the post. You don't have to take his word for it, you can do the calculations yourself.

There is no need, I am married to a former teacher in a non-union state that ranks 44th in the nation and it is clear that education suffers here for lack of adequate funding for education.


You get what you pay for!
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

So neither line teacher's pockets as you claim.



There is no need, I am married to a former teacher in a non-union state that ranks 44th in the nation and it is clear that education suffers here for lack of adequate funding for education.


You get what you pay for!

Catawba, get over it, elections have consequences and your side lost. Wisconsin has rescinded some collective bargaining rights but not those regarding salary.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

So neither line teacher's pockets as you claim.

...

...

You must have missed the entirety of the text you just responded to, which explained EXACTLY how the teachers' unions benefit.

Catawba said:
There is no need, I am married to a former teacher in a non-union state that ranks 44th in the nation and it is clear that education suffers here for lack of adequate funding for education.

Right. There's no need to look at the actual data, because it's clear to you. You know it in your heart. An excellent debate tactic. Carry on sir. :roll:
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

After Adrian Fenty lost his mayoral reelection bid here in the District, and Michelle Rhee was ousted as chancellor of the DC schools, I was worried that education reform would grind to a halt nationwide. I'm very pleasantly surprised to see Governor Walker's success, and I hope it's replicated in other states.

Today, Cory Booker, the mayor of Newark, fired a shot across the bow of teacher tenure. Perhaps reforming tenure can be the next target of the reformists, after the unions are curtailed.
Teacher tenure is poisonous: Cory Booker, mayor of Newark, says it's time to put performance first
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Typical. The poll's results are not to your liking, so you dismiss them. Walker and a few Republican state Repubs won't be feeling the same as you when they get recalled.

of course I dismiss them. a candidate was just elected by the people that chose to go vote, not byh the people that chose to pick up a phone to listen to biased questions.
 
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