Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

CriticalThought · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:
No, what they did was run out on their obligations, a lot of bills were voted on while they were running. That just shows how childish liberals can be

They found a procedural loophole and took advantage of it. Both parties do that all the time.

Walter · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
The law requires 24 hour notice, which was not provided:

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The fact is.....The democrats where notified on FEB. 20, 2011 about the vote that happened last night if the AWOL 14 continued to choose not to engage the democratic process they were elected to preform. They were simply "out maneuvered". Walker called their "bluff"....he was holding a full house, and the democrats who were drawing to an inside straight went ALL IN.

LookingGlass · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:
No, what they did was run out on their obligations, a lot of bills were voted on while they were running. That just shows how childish liberals can be

It isn't so much childish as it is inflexible.

Conservative · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

CriticalThought said:
They found a procedural loophole and took advantage of it. Both parties do that all the time.

You are diverting from the FACT that Democrats ran and shirked their responsibility to the electorate. They were not there to represent their constiuents on other legislation debated and voted upon.

Conservative · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

LookingGlass said:
It isn't so much childish as it is inflexible.

They threw a temper tantrum as did their followers many of whom are from out of state. they failed to represent their constituents on other votes while out of state.

The Prof · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

theplaydrive said:
fringe members of both parties do crazy things

tell it to krugman, msnbc, the nyt and sheriff dupnik

oh, and good luck with those afscme's and seiu's

crack heads

The Barbarian · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
The law requires 24 hour notice, which was not provided:

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I'm not exactly sure how that will work out for you. 24 hour notice to whom? There were 14 Democrats, that no one has any idea where they are. So giving them 24 hour notice, could have been done........ that fact that they didn't receive it, could just as easily be because they are in hiding. But I'm betting you will have 18 Republicans swearing .. that notice was given.

Catawba · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

The Barbarian said:
I'm not exactly sure how that will work out for you. 24 hour notice to whom? There were 14 Democrats, that no one has any idea where they are. So giving them 24 hour notice, could have been done........ that fact that they didn't receive it, could just as easily be because they are in hiding. But I'm betting you will have 18 Republicans swearing .. that notice was given.

Representative Barca stated he had not received 24 hours notice as required by law. I saw the video taken at the meeting. It is a matter of public record so it will not matter if the Republicans now decide to lie about it in unison.

Gill · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
Representative Barca stated he had not received 24 hours notice as required by law. I saw the video taken at the meeting. It is a matter of public record so it will not matter if the Republicans now decide to lie about it in unison.

24 hour notice is not always required:

Generally speaking, the open meetings law applies to the state Legislature, including the senate, assembly and any committees or subunits of those bodies. Wis. Stat. § 19.87. The law does not apply to any partisan caucus of the senate or assembly. Wis. Stat. § 19.87(3). The open meetings law also does not apply where it conflicts with a rule of the Legislature, senate or assembly. Wis. Stat. § 19.87(2). Additional restrictions are set forth in Wis. Stat. § 19.87.

Public notice of every meeting of a governmental body shall be given at least 24 hours prior to the commencement of such meeting unless for good cause such notice is impossible or impractical, in which case shorter notice may be given, but in no case may the notice be provided less than 2 hours in advance of the meeting.

Amazed · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba doesn't like "facts".

Gill said:
24 hour notice is not always required:

Generally speaking, the open meetings law applies to the state Legislature, including the senate, assembly and any committees or subunits of those bodies. Wis. Stat. § 19.87. The law does not apply to any partisan caucus of the senate or assembly. Wis. Stat. § 19.87(3). The open meetings law also does not apply where it conflicts with a rule of the Legislature, senate or assembly. Wis. Stat. § 19.87(2). Additional restrictions are set forth in Wis. Stat. § 19.87.

Public notice of every meeting of a governmental body shall be given at least 24 hours prior to the commencement of such meeting unless for good cause such notice is impossible or impractical, in which case shorter notice may be given, but in no case may the notice be provided less than 2 hours in advance of the meeting.

iamitter · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Gill said:
Conservative in your mind. The most accurate polling organization in the minds of nonpartisans.

They were the the most far off in the Nov Elections, by 4%. Actually the most inaccurate pollster this season.

Catawba · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Gill said:
24 hour notice is not always required:

Generally speaking, the open meetings law applies to the state Legislature, including the senate, assembly and any committees or subunits of those bodies. Wis. Stat. § 19.87. The law does not apply to any partisan caucus of the senate or assembly. Wis. Stat. § 19.87(3). The open meetings law also does not apply where it conflicts with a rule of the Legislature, senate or assembly. Wis. Stat. § 19.87(2). Additional restrictions are set forth in Wis. Stat. § 19.87.

Public notice of every meeting of a governmental body shall be given at least 24 hours prior to the commencement of such meeting unless for good cause such notice is impossible or impractical, in which case shorter notice may be given, but in no case may the notice be provided less than 2 hours in advance of the meeting.

As it was a bi-partisan committee meeting, that rules out your first excuse. And because nothing prevented notice (except unwillingness), your second excuse does not apply either.

Catawba · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Amazed said:
Catawba doesn't like "facts".

What "facts" would those be?

MaggieD · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
As it was a bi-partisan committee meeting, that rules out your first excuse. And because nothing prevented notice (except unwillingness), your second excuse does not apply either.

How about you're not an attorney? How about letting the courts decide? Oh, wait, that's much to democratic. Let's settle it in the streets.

Amazed · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Obama is taking care of that election.....Nov 2010 was about the future, we are coming for Obama this time.

We will vote him out.

hazlnut said:
This has nothing to do with Wisconsin. It's all about 2012 and Obama.

Catawba · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

MaggieD said:
How about you're not an attorney? How about letting the courts decide? Oh, wait, that's much to democratic. Let's settle it in the streets.

Exactly my point. This is far from being a done deal.

Gill · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
As it was a bi-partisan committee meeting, that rules out your first excuse. And because nothing prevented notice (except unwillingness), your second excuse does not apply either.

Nothing prevented normal notice other than the inconvenient fact that the Dems were hidden away in another state like thieves.

Kandahar · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

CriticalThought said:
The Republicans in Wisconsin really evoked class warfare. They cut taxes for the wealthiest and then stripped the collective bargaining rights and political representation of public workers. That just amazes me since I always feel it is the Democrats who are evoking class warfare on the Republicans.

You know what evokes class warfare? Teachers' unions - which are dominated by middle-class, college-educated white people - consistently opposing valuable education reforms for poor, inner-city minority students.

Can we please stop pretending that teachers' unions represent the little guy, fighting the good fight against The Man? Teachers' unions ARE The Man. They take advantage of the poor.

Catawba · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Gill said:
Nothing prevented normal notice other than the inconvenient fact that the Dems were hidden away in another state like thieves.

You keep ignoring the presence of Democrat Rep. Barca, and you ignore that the Democrats were in daily communication with the administration.

Catawba · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Kandahar said:
You know what evokes class warfare? Teachers' unions - which are dominated by middle-class, college-educated white people - consistently opposing valuable education reforms for poor, inner-city minority students.

Can we please stop pretending that teachers' unions represent the little guy, fighting the good fight against The Man? Teachers' unions ARE The Man.

You are misinformed. Teachers use their collective bargaining rights to improve reform and funding to address poor, inner-city minority students. Because the priority has been for other things such as corporate welfare, is not the fault of the educators. Without collective bargaining, education will be at the mercy of whatever the corporate elected officials decide it should be.

Gill · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
You keep ignoring the presence of Democrat Rep. Barca, and you ignore that the Democrats were in daily communication with the administration.

Unfortunately for you, the Wisconsin Senate Chief Clerk, Rob Merchant, disagrees with you. He sent a notice out today saying, "[T]he notice appears to have satisfied the requirements of the rules and statutes,".

Majority Leader Fitzgerald sent out the following notice:

Tonight's Conference Committee was properly noticed. From the Senate Chief Clerk, Rob Marchant:

FYI . . .

There was some discussion today about the notice provided for the legislature's conference committee. In special session, under Senate Rule 93, no advance notice is required other than posting on the legislative bulletin board. Despite this rule, it was decided to provide a 2 hour notice by posting on the bulletin board. My staff, as a courtesy, emailed a copy of the notice to all legisaltive offices at 4:10, which gave the impression that the notice may have been slightly less than 2 hours. Either way, the notice appears to have satisfied the requirements of the rules and statutes.

I thought you might find this information to be useful.

Thanks.

Rob

ThePlayDrive · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Kandahar said:
You know what evokes class warfare? Teachers' unions - which are dominated by middle-class, college-educated white people - consistently opposing valuable education reforms for poor, inner-city minority students.

Can we please stop pretending that teachers' unions represent the little guy, fighting the good fight against The Man? Teachers' unions ARE The Man. They take advantage of the poor.

Who told you that?

Also, AFT - A Union of Professionals - Why Teacher Unions Are Good for Teachers and the Public It's article by Diane Ravitch, who worked under George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton. She is highly respected. You should read it.

BWG · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:
...protesters doing millions of dollars in damage to the state capitol says it all about how childish liberals are.

and you just swallowed the 'fair and balanced' network' rhetoric lock, stock and barrel...LOL

Let's see what a Wisconsin expert had to say...

One day before the eye-popping damage estimate came out, a Madison historic preservation expert posted a blog item praising the conduct of the protesters.

The protesters "have adopted an ownership ethic in the building, treating it with the utmost care and respect," wrote Jason Tish, executive director of the Madison Trust for Historic Preservation and a local field representative for the National Trust for Historic Preservation.

He called the demonstrators "evangelistic about their respect for the building."

[...]

Tish, the preservationist/blogger, returned for a look that same day.

"The extent of what I saw today is just chips and nicks -- cosmetic damage," he said in an interview. "I don’t see how they (protesters) could have conducted themselves any better."

An estimate from the people that are actually in charge of the facility...

The same day, the state provided a different memo, from Peter Maternowski, deputy administrator of the Division of State Facilities. It was written that day, addressed to Huebsch.

That memo said the cleanup would cost $347,500 if the work did not require a historic preservation specialist. That’s 20 times less than the original claim.

PolitiFact Wisconsin | Wisconsin officials claim cleaning up the state Capitol will cost $7.5 million

Kandahar · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
You are misinformed. Teachers use their collective bargaining rights to improve reform and funding to address poor, inner-city minority students.

Name one worthwhile education reform that teachers' unions have supported in the last 30 years, aside from those that directly benefited the teachers' union itself. And I'm not talking about grudgingly accepting certain reforms to avoid even more far-reaching reforms...I'd like to know one that they actually WANT, which doesn't benefit them personally.

Catawba said:
Because the priority has been for other things such as corporate welfare, is not the fault of the educators. Without collective bargaining, education will be at the mercy of whatever the corporate elected officials decide it should be.

Imagine that, public policy will be at the mercy of what elected officials want. I think that's called democracy.

ThePlayDrive · Mar 10, 2011

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Kandahar said:
Name one worthwhile education reform that teachers' unions have supported in the last 30 years, aside from those that directly benefited the teachers' union itself. And I'm not talking about grudgingly accepting certain reforms to avoid even more far-reaching reforms...I'd like to know one that they actually WANT, which doesn't benefit them personally.

Imagine that, public policy will be at the mercy of what elected officials want. I think that's called democracy.

Democrats are elected officials too.

Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

CriticalThought

Walter

LookingGlass

Active member

Conservative

Conservative

The Prof

The Barbarian

Catawba

Disappointed Evolutionist

Gill

Amazed

iamitter

Sleeper Agent

Catawba

Disappointed Evolutionist

Catawba

Disappointed Evolutionist

MaggieD

Amazed

Catawba

Disappointed Evolutionist

Gill

Kandahar

Enemy Combatant

Catawba

Disappointed Evolutionist

Catawba

Disappointed Evolutionist

Gill

ThePlayDrive

BWG

Kandahar

Enemy Combatant

ThePlayDrive