• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

May we have a link to this outlandish assertion?

As to this statement:



Even if your hyperbole were correct, and he did gut somebodies (which he didn't), public sector unions represent little more than 6% of the population....teacher unions represent much less than this. I'm assuming that Wisconsin holds true to the entire U.S....and that might well be wrong. The percentage is probably much less. Hardly a major section.[/QUOTE]

you know what's funny here? walker wants to exempt police and firefighters......mostly male groups. teachers are predominately female.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

I do not understand how the exercising of our basic right to withhold our own labor upsets you so much?

You would not support a persons right to withhold their own labor?

Oh, of course. As long as they can legitimately be fired. I rather hope Wisconsin teachers do go on strike. I can think of hardly anything they could do that would alienate Wisconsinites any more than that.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

As to this statement:

Even if your hyperbole were correct, and he did gut somebodies (which he didn't), public sector unions represent little more than 6% of the population....teacher unions represent much less than this. I'm assuming that Wisconsin holds true to the entire U.S....and that might well be wrong. The percentage is probably much less. Hardly a major section.

you know what's funny here? walker wants to exempt police and firefighters......mostly male groups. teachers are predominately female.

To what statement? The percentages of people in public sector unions? I've posted it up all over these discussions, LibLady. 11.9% of US workers belong to unions. Slightly more than half belong to public sector unions.

And now, in desperation, this becomes a women's rights issue? Oh, pullleeeeze....
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Oh, of course. As long as they can legitimately be fired. I rather hope Wisconsin teachers do go on strike. I can think of hardly anything they could do that would alienate Wisconsinites any more than that.

Lots of school closings and teacher lay-offs in Michigan and other states. Maybe they'd be willing to move.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

To what statement? The percentages of people in public sector unions? I've posted it up all over these discussions, LibLady. 11.9% of US workers belong to unions. Slightly more than half belong to public sector unions.

And now, in desperation, this becomes a women's rights issue? Oh, pullleeeeze....

no desperation...i have always been on the side of teachers. so, a recession causes budget problems, and the first thing we do chop the unions? they DID NOT cause wisconsin's problems.

walker is toast, and deservedly so, for operating without ethics.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

To what statement? The percentages of people in public sector unions? I've posted it up all over these discussions, LibLady. 11.9% of US workers belong to unions. Slightly more than half belong to public sector unions.

And now, in desperation, this becomes a women's rights issue? Oh, pullleeeeze....

I wonder how many are black? Might as well make Walker into a racist while we're at it.:roll:
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

no desperation...i have always been on the side of teachers. so, a recession causes budget problems, and the first thing we do chop the unions? they DID NOT cause wisconsin's problems.

walker is toast, and deservedly so, for operating without ethics.

You may be right. But how 'bout we let democracy decide? Actually, democracy tried to decide it three weeks ago, but Democrats fled the state to subvert it. Now that's operating without ethics.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

May we have a link to this outlandish assertion?

.[/QUOTE]

It passed the Michigan Senate yesterday. it is called the Emergency Manager legislation. Its east to google and you can find out all about it. I watched from the gallery as it passed yesterday.

All they need is the BELIEF that your city or town will be in economic trouble and they can take over and get rid of your elected officials os the ones who run the place and put in their own wanna-be dictators who answer to nobody in that town.

Believe it Maggie. Its happening.

this is from the mirs news serice which is a subscription service that our office pays for

EFM Bills Pass Senate
Legislation allowing the state to step into a local school district's or local government's financial meltdown earlier in the process as well as turn over the power to void publicly bargained contracts to an appointed emergency financial manager passed the Senate on straight party line votes.

The major changes in the Senate to HB 4214, the lead bill, included dropping a House-passed requirement that would ban elected officials from serving again for six years if they were in place when an emergency financial manager was appointed.

During final action in the Senate today, Democrats offered many of the same amendments that came up Tuesday on the measure under General Orders (See "Labor Loud But Poised To Lose," 3/8/11).

The one that garnered the most debate was offered by Sen. Tupac HUNTER (D-Detroit) to cap the pay rate of an emergency financial manager to that of Gov. Rick SNYDER, as set out by the State Officers Compensation Commission (SOCC).

The justification for the amendment, according to Sen. Coleman YOUNG, Jr. (D-Detroit) was the $400,000 he said was being paid the Detroit Public Schools Emergency Financial Manager Robert BOBB.

"At $400,000 I expect you to be able to leap buildings . . . and shoot lasers out of your eyes," he said.

Sen. Rick JONES (R-Grand Ledge) responded by reminding "everyone that Gov. Jennifer GRANHOLM hired Bobb and agreed to pay him $280,000."

Senate Minority Leader Gretchen WHITMER (D-East Lansing) suggested to cheers from outside the chamber at one point that Republican members of the Senate were laying out job opportunities.

"I can't help but wonder, maybe you're just looking out for your next job after term limits? You can make over $100,000 more than what you make with only two days training," Whitmer said after pointing out the Governor's budget would push more local units closer to needing emergency financial managers.

Today, when the amendment came up for a vote, the Senate locked at 19-19 with seven freshman GOP members of the Senate voting yes with all 12 Democrats. Lt. Gov. Brian CALLEY then had to cast his first tie-breaking vote by voting no against the measure.

Republicans voting for the salary cap included Sens. Tom CASPERSON (R-Escanaba), Bruce CASWELL (R-Hillsdale), Patrick COLBECK (R-Canton), Mike GREEN (R-Mayville), Geoff HANSEN (R-Hart), Mike NOFS (R-Battle Creek) and Tory ROCCA (R-Sterling Heights).

Sen. Tonya SCHUITMAKER (R-Lawton) successfully amended the bill to require that emergency financial managers abide by the conflict of interest requirements imposed on all other state officers.

HB 4214 and HB 4216, HB 4217, HB 4218 passed the Senate on straight party line votes. Rep. Al PSCHOLKA (R-Stevensville) told MIRS the House would concur to the Senate's changes to HB 4214. The other three bills in the package that came over without amendment were enrolled and presented to the governor by the House this afternoon.

Gaffney Hunting for 9 GOP Votes
Having lost the battle in the Senate, the head of the state's largest union coalition is hunting for nine moderate Republican votes in the House to redesign the emergency financial manager legislation.

"There will be an Emergency Financial Manager bill," AFL-CIO President Mark Gaffney said, but he reported he's now working to convince "nine moderate Republicans House members" to "make sense" out of the measure as it cleared the Senate.

"There are some moderate Republicans who are concerned," he told MIRS, and two of them were on the phone trying to reach Gaffney on Wednesday. "We are looking for Republicans who want to respect democracy."

The AFL-CIO president argued one person should not decide if there should be athletics, busing or extra curricular activities in a school.

"Those decisions are up to the people and the school board," he said.

Asked how many of the nine he had secured he responded, "The number is not zero."

A similar bill has already passed the House. Small government Republican conservatives voting to allow big state government to take over your town or city and run things their own way. This is just one of a bunch of such bills being pushed here to ram government down the throats of people. And they all come from Republicans
 
Last edited:
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Oh, of course. As long as they can legitimately be fired. I rather hope Wisconsin teachers do go on strike. I can think of hardly anything they could do that would alienate Wisconsinites any more than that.

Do you know what a general stike is?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

May we have a link to this outlandish assertion?

Sorry, I got Michigan mixed up with Wisconsin.

Emergency managers bill sweeps toward final approval | Michigan Messenger

A lot has happened in the last few days.

Even if your hyperbole were correct, and he did gut somebodies (which he didn't), public sector unions represent little more than 6% of the population....teacher unions represent much less than this. I'm assuming that Wisconsin holds true to the entire U.S....and that might well be wrong. The percentage is probably much less. Hardly a major section.

I don't make assumptions. However, the middle class usually represents about 15% of the population, so yeah that would be a major gutting.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

.It passed the Michigan Senate yesterday. it is called the Emergency Manager legislation. Its east to google and you can find out all about it. I watched from the gallery as it passed yesterday.

All they need is the BELIEF that your city or town will be in economic trouble and they can take over and get rid of your elected officials os the ones who run the place and put in their own wanna-be dictators who answer to nobody in that town.

Another assertion without a link. Haymarket! How 'bout doing some legwork like the rest of us??

Here's what the poster said:
However, I do disagree strongly with Walker gaining the power to disolve local governments and install people he appoints in their position. Why should a governor get to decide who is the mayor of my town? That is intolerable.

Link to Walker. Please.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Sorry, I got Michigan mixed up with Wisconsin.

Emergency managers bill sweeps toward final approval | Michigan Messenger

A lot has happened in the last few days.

Thank you for the link. And, yes, you're so right. Fast and furious.

I don't make assumptions. However, the middle class usually represents about 15% of the population, so yeah that would be a major gutting.

Now that I've been civil ;-) -- I call bull**** on the middle class representing 15% of the population. Link, please? ;-)
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Now that I've been civil ;-) -- I call bull**** on the middle class representing 15% of the population. Link, please? ;-)

It depends on the model you use. I prefer a living wage model, which puts the middle class at 15-20%. Other models range as high as 66% of the country is middle class.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

You may be right. But how 'bout we let democracy decide? Actually, democracy tried to decide it three weeks ago, but Democrats fled the state to subvert it. Now that's operating without ethics.

Everything that's happening is a product of democracy. Voting is not the only characteristic of a society expressing its democratic ideals. The Democrats left the state to stand up for their constituents, something that their constituents approved of since it showed they weren't just going to watch Walker vote against them. It would unethical to do the opposite of what they did. You can try to spin it all you want, but standing up for the people who voted for in the only limited way that you can is what politicians should do.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

It depends on the model you use. I prefer a living wage model, which puts the middle class at 15-20%. Other models range as high as 66% of the country is middle class.

Why no link? Living wage and middle class are two very different distinctions, no? A living wage would not be the ONLY qualifier even if you do choose to use it. And if you do choose to use "living wage," the middle class would be much larger than it really is, imo, not smaller.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

You may be right. But how 'bout we let democracy decide? Actually, democracy tried to decide it three weeks ago, but Democrats fled the state to subvert it. Now that's operating without ethics.

If that is the case, then every filibuster is against democracy.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Everything that's happening is a product of democracy. Voting is not the only characteristic of a society expressing its democratic ideals. The Democrats left the state to stand up for their constituents, something that their constituents approved of since it showed they weren't just going to watch Walker vote against them. It would unethical to do the opposite of what they did. You can try to spin it all you want, but standing up for the people who voted for in the only limited way that you can is what politicians should do.

That's bull****. Plain unadulterated bull****. It is a subversion of the democratic process to run and hide...thus grinding government to a halt. Obama said, "Elections have consequences." Apparently that's only when the Dems hold a majority.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

They can assemble and petition all they like, but that doesn't give them the right to collude to fix prices any moreso than any other trust. A union is not merely a lobbying group for higher wages; they actually expect a seat at the negotiating table, they employ strongarm tactics to get it, and workers have no choice but to give them money. If workers want to join a special interest group, of their own volition, that seeks to increase public wages at the expense of taxpayers by electing certain candidates to political office, they are free to do so. But let's not pretend that's what a union is.

You sir are 100% correct. State unions are more than help for a "fair" wage. They are more like the mafia.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Sadly you don't understand the economic damage the Public Sector Unions have done to the state, and why this measure is being used to curtail such largess in the future. They aren't doing it for today, they are doing it to save the state tomorrow.

It really is quite telling that people outside of Wisconsin have no problem with the taxpayers of Wisconsin paying more in taxes to fund public unions. All ignore as your post claims the damage public unions do to taxpayers.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

If that is the case, then every filibuster is against democracy.

A filibuster is a rule put into the Senate by the members of the Senate. Where is that in the state legislature rules that Representatives can flee the state to keep from voting on a bill?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

It really is quite telling that people outside of Wisconsin have no problem with the taxpayers of Wisconsin paying more in taxes to fund public unions. All ignore as your post claims the damage public unions do to taxpayers.

tha's a lie. the teacher's union gave all concessions, except the right to collective bargaining. this is not about money, no matter how you try to insist it is.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

That's bull****. Plain unadulterated bull****. It is a subversion of the democratic process to run and hide...thus grinding government to a halt. Obama said, "Elections have consequences." Apparently that's only when the Dems hold a majority.

You must be joking. It's not a subversion of the democratic process. When you feel that your voters are under attack, you stand up for them. The Democrats left to stall the vote in order to protect their constituents' interests - this is why we vote for who we vote for. They left in hopes of stalling the process, finding laws that prevented Walker's actions and perhaps reaching negotiations that kept collective bargaining in tact. These types of actions are an expression of democratic ideals - voting is NOT the only way.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

You must be joking. It's not a subversion of the democratic process. When you feel that your voters are under attack, you stand up for them. The Democrats left to stall the vote in order to protect their constituents' interests - this is why we vote for who we vote for. They left in hopes of stalling the process, finding laws that prevented Walker's actions and perhaps reaching negotiations that kept collective bargaining in tact. These types of actions are an expression of democratic ideals - voting is NOT the only way.

Let me correct that for you.......

The Democrats left to stall the vote in order to protect their union bosses and their campaign donations. They left in hopes of subverting the democratic process.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

It really is quite telling that people outside of Wisconsin have no problem with the taxpayers of Wisconsin paying more in taxes to fund public unions. All ignore as your post claims the damage public unions do to taxpayers.

This assumes that they don't mind paying taxes in their own state - yes, unions do exist in other states.

Also, if you read the thread, many people answer to claims about the damage public unions do to tax payers. The problems are 1) Union members are also taxpayers. So clearly they aren't upset by the damage. 2) Unions didn't cause the economic problems we have today. 3) THE UNIONS MADE THE FINANCIAL CONCESSIONS.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom