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Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

theplaydrive said:
Somebody already pointed this out and I admitted that I was wrong. Thanks though.
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I know I saw it after. I was way behind in this thread.:)
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

danarhea said:
And there's the rub. Walker could not have gotten elected if he said this, so he lied, disguising his union busting effort behind the idea of balancing the budget.
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interesting claim. given that, in fact, unions campaigned against walker in 2010 by arguing specifically that he was planning to accomplish precisely what he has, do you have any evidence of Walker saying (during the election, for example) that he had no intention to limit collective bargaining of public employees?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

theplaydrive said:
Unions represent citizens.
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unions represent a minority of citizens. but public unions represent a key minority of citizens, ones with the ability - should they act in concert under the direction of the union - to cause government functions to grind to a screetching halt.

Imagine if (for example) the military one day decided that they didnt' trust Obama to be a good C-in-C; and so they started pursuing their own foriegn policy.

and so unions are a special-interest group. and special interest groups should have the ability to petition the government which is representative of the entire electorate. they should NOT have the ability to veto that government.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

danarhea said:
No, the reason is to break the unions.
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You say that like it's a bad thing.

danarhea said:
The fact that THIS is the only provision of the bill that was passed, while separating ALL fiscal portions of the bill from it, speaks to that.
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Nah, that speaks to the fact that only the non-fiscal portions COULD pass without a quorum.

danarhea said:
The fact that the unions had already agreed to all financial concessions speaks to that.
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As I said earlier, those are two separate problems: The immediate budget deficit, and the more chronic problem of teachers' unions destroying our education system. Financial concessions may solve the first problem, but they won't solve the latter.

danarhea said:
And, finally, Wisconsin Senate Majority Leader admitting to FOX News this afternoon that the bill was about breaking the union speaks to that. No amount of lies, weasel words, and talking points is going to cover up the fact that this was not about balancing the budget at all, but breaking the union.
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Again, you say that like it's a bad thing.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

danarhea said:
The People of the State of Wisconsin elected Walker as Governor to balance the budget, not to wage an ideological war against them.
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ARealConservative said:
them?

what, the 3% of the population that belongs to a public union.

maybe you come visit the state before pretending to know what the residents think?
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No, the 52% of Wisconsin voters who oppose weakening union bargaining rights, according to Rasmussen.

Wisconsin Poll: Support for Budget Cutting, Not for Weakening Collective Bargaining Rights - Rasmussen Reports™

A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of Wisconsin voters shows that just 39% favor weakening collective bargaining rights and 52% are opposed. At the same time, 44% support a 10% pay cut for all state workers. Thirty-eight percent (38%) are opposed. That’s partly because 27% of Wisconsin voters believe state workers are paid too much and 16% believe they are paid too little. Forty-nine percent (49%) believe the pay of state workers is about right.
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And according to a poll conducted for a conservative think tank, 51% of Wisconsin voters oppose Walker's bill. The poll also found that Walker is unpopular with most voters. Also, 65% said Walker should negotiate.

Opinions polls show sharp divisions on Walker - JSOnline

In one new survey, 54% of Wisconsinites disapprove of Walker's performance while 43% approve. Walker is viewed less favorably than either of his main antagonists in the state's stormy budget debate: public employee unions and Democrats in the Legislature. And after just two months in office, he inspires more intense feelings - pro and con - than President Barack Obama does in Wisconsin.

Those findings come from a statewide poll of 603 adults taken Feb. 27 through Tuesday for a conservative think tank that has surveyed regularly in the state, the Wisconsin Policy Research Institute.

The WPRI survey shows fierce division over the governor's budget-repair bill - 46% support it and 51% oppose it - but also public hunger for a resolution.

When asked whether Walker should "stand strong for the plan he has proposed no matter how long the protests go on" or "negotiate with Democrats and public employees' unions in order to find a compromise solution," a large majority - 65% - said the governor should negotiate to find a compromise, while 33% said "stand strong."
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

danarhea said:
Since there was no quorum, it will not stand up in court. The Wisconsin State Supreme Court will overturn this in short order.
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On what basis do you claim there was no quorum?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

danarhea said:
Sorry, guy. I'm not taking the bait. You are now on ignore. Go start a flame war with someone else.
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Notice one and all, Dan's feelings have been hurt. I didn't troll, I tried to engage him, and point out some truth. I guess it hurt to much.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

cpwill said:
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looks like we've been seeing a shift of "moderates" to "conservatism".



that's true, but don't mistake the republican party for conservative ideology.
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People describe themselves differently. Perhaps instead of ideology, I should have said their take on issues, which hasn't changed much at all. When it does, elections are generally a poor way of measuring it.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

I have mixed feelings about this. I do believe that public sector collection bargaining must be racheted back, by force if necessary, in order for states (all states, all public entities) to be able to remain solvent into the future. However, the Wisconsin legislature has done this in such a way that it will be immediately appealed and overturned. The state will then be back to square one, minus the court and lawyer fees.

It might have made them feel really, really good, but that feeling is only going to last a really, really short time. They have to do things right, legally. Unless this is nothing more that a partisian pep rally. If so, good job.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

ludahai said:
That didn't answer the question... typical dodge...
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This thread is chock full of dodge.

Take the claim that the GOP made an illegal vote, then later claiming they were being dishonest only voting for the union busting point. It's pretty much over for the Pro-Union crowd.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

DiAnna said:
I have mixed feelings about this. I do believe that public sector collection bargaining must be racheted back, by force if necessary, in order for states (all states, all public entities) to be able to remain solvent into the future. However, the Wisconsin legislature has done this in such a way that it will be immediately appealed and overturned. The state will then be back to square one, minus the court and lawyer fees.

It might have made them feel really, really good, but that feeling is only going to last a really, really short time. They have to do things right, legally. Unless this is nothing more that a partisian pep rally. If so, good job.
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How was it illegal? It wasn't. The dem's just be crying.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

IN the link given by Sgt Meowenstin: Wisconsin Poll: Support for Budget Cutting, Not for Weakening Collective Bargaining Rights - Rasmussen Reports™

I found the link for the question list:


Questions - Wisconsin Public Employees - March 2, 2011 - Rasmussen Reports™


Wisconsin State Survey of 800 Likely Voters
Conducted March 2, 2011
By Rasmussen Reports

1* How closely have you followed recent news stories about Governor Scott Walker’s proposals to reduce the state budget deficit?

2* In the debate over how to reduce the state budget deficit, are you more supportive of Governor Walker or the state Senate Democrats?

3* Do you favor or oppose a proposal that would require state employees to help pay the costs of the health care and pension benefits?

4* How closely have you followed recent news stories about Governor Scott Walker’s proposals to weaken the collective bargaining rights of state unions?

5* In the debate over collective bargaining rights, are you more supportive of Governor Walker or the public employee unions?

6* Do you favor or oppose a proposal that would cut the pay and benefits of state workers?

7* Generally speaking, do public employee unions have two much influence on politics in Wisconsin, not enough influence, or about the right amount of influence?

8* In terms of its impact on the nation, is it a good thing or a bad thing that most teachers belong to public employee unions?

9* To help reduce state spending would you favor or oppose a 10% pay cut for all state employees?

10* Are state employees paid too much, too little or about right?

11* Do you favor or oppose a proposal to weaken the collective bargaining rights of state employees?

12* To eliminate the state budget deficit, would you favor tax hikes, spending cuts, or a combination of the two? Those who answered “combination of the two” were asked the following question: Would you prefer to see more tax hikes than spending cuts, more spending cuts than tax hikes, or a roughly equal amount of tax hikes and spending cuts?

13* Do you have a very favorable, somewhat favorable, somewhat unfavorable or very unfavorable impression of public school teachers in Wisconsin?

14* Do you have a very favorable, somewhat favorable, somewhat unfavorable or very unfavorable impression of the teachers union in Wisconsin?

15* In the November 2010 election for Governor, did you vote for Tom Barrett or Scott Walker?


NOTE: Margin of Sampling Error, +/- 4 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence
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Now for my question: What important question did Rasmussen Reports not ask to avoid possible bias on the poll?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

iamitter said:
People describe themselves differently. Perhaps instead of ideology, I should have said their take on issues, which hasn't changed much at all. When it does, elections are generally a poor way of measuring it.
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then again i would have to disagree. matters such as deficits and the size of government are becoming far more central to the American political debate. FAR more people care about public union compensation, constitutional originalism, and all those other tangetal issues today than did 4 years ago. The Tea Party is real, and it's significant, and it's going to be here as a force for quite some time.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

danarhea said:
Actually, it's not. Changing my political lean was an honest move on my part. I suggest you read my thread in the partisan politics forum, before you start calling me names.
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You know, one can be independent and conservative at the same time. I am a conservative but I have no allegiance to the Republican Party, or any other party. My allegience is to my own beliefs and conscience, not to that of any person or political party...
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Shadow Serious said:
IN the link given by Sgt Meowenstin: Wisconsin Poll: Support for Budget Cutting, Not for Weakening Collective Bargaining Rights - Rasmussen Reports™

I found the link for the question list:


Questions - Wisconsin Public Employees - March 2, 2011 - Rasmussen Reports™





Now for my question: What important question did Rasmussen Reports not ask to avoid possible bias on the poll?
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Ummm...are you a member of a union?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Barbbtx said:
Ummm...are you a member of a union?
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BINGO! You got it! (and more particularly a member of government union.)
 
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

DiAnna said:
I have mixed feelings about this. I do believe that public sector collection bargaining must be racheted back, by force if necessary, in order for states (all states, all public entities) to be able to remain solvent into the future.
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Then you should be singing their praises.....THE MOB just got dissolved in Wisconsin.....

However, the Wisconsin legislature has done this in such a way that it will be immediately appealed and overturned. The state will then be back to square one, minus the court and lawyer fees.

It might have made them feel really, really good, but that feeling is only going to last a really, really short time. They have to do things right, legally. Unless this is nothing more that a partisian pep rally. If so, good job.
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That....or as soon as the Democrats come back from hiding......schedule a vote on the bill in its entirety and pass it.

The Greatest Governor of all time has them by the balls....... God Bless Him.
.
.
.
.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Sgt Meowenstein said:
No, the 52% of Wisconsin voters who oppose weakening union bargaining rights, according to Rasmussen.
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haha. maybe you can look to have the last election replaced with a rasmussen poll. hell, lets do away with elections altogether and let things get decided by random telephone polling.

/sarcasm
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

cpwill said:
then again i would have to disagree. matters such as deficits and the size of government are becoming far more central to the American political debate. FAR more people care about public union compensation, constitutional originalism, and all those other tangetal issues today than did 4 years ago. The Tea Party is real, and it's significant, and it's going to be here as a force for quite some time.
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People will say they are against deficits - they are also against cutting pretty much every program except foreign aid.
The tea party isn't going to be around for very long if these are the kinds of stunts its going to pull.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

ARealConservative said:
haha. maybe you can look to have the last election replaced with a rasmussen poll. hell, lets do away with elections altogether and let things get decided by random telephone polling.

/sarcasm
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Actually, the Rasmussen poll is the most conservative one out there. Wall Street Journal Poll shows 62% against weakening bargaining rights. Now about that last election? Walker did not tell Wisconsinites that his first goal out of the box would be to try and break the unions. Hence the difference, which you will find out when at least 3 Republican state senators will lose their office, due to recall (maybe more than 3 too - all 8 will be recalled and have to run again). You will also find out when Walker himself is recalled next January.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

that's correct. people are generally against ending collective bargaining rights.

but people are also in favor of being a right to work state.

and overwhelmingly people favor the right to representative government (which is what the bill actually expanded).


it seems you can get the majority of Americans to support about anything so long as you slap the word "rights" onto a phrase that might not be crystal clear its' definition to most poll respondents.




as for the recall efforts.... i'm thinking for the vast majority of Wisconsin's citizens, this issue fades. the Unions will remember (expect Wisconsin to be absolutely drowning in Union money in a couple of months), but the electorate? school will go on, and i doubt they will care.


UNLESS the unions are actually stupid enough to call a general strike, as there have been some rumblings of them doing so.

if that happens, expect to see any union support plummet fast.
 
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Just as the Koch brothers have their agenda labeled rights in a poll as well. Right? :mrgreen:
 
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