Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:

Actually unemployment numbers are understated because they don't count the discouraged workers and individual business owners and contract workers that lost their jobs as well. Some of those are counted in the U-6 numbers which shows a truer picture of the problem we have today.

I retired as well from the private sector after 35 years in the business world. I am a proponent of capitalism and free enterprise, not the massive expansion of govt. and the entitlement state promoted by liberalism. Our economy is consumer driven and with a growing population and labor market as you pointed out it is imperative that the Administration focus on incentive for the private sector which this Administration refuses to do. They are filled with ideologues who believe in a socialist utopia that never exists.

There are four components to GDP and consumer consumption is the major component and that is what creates most of the jobs. People with more of their own money create jobs through increasing demand and also reducing demand for govt. "Help" which really doesn't help at all but instead creates dependence.

The way to create jobs in this environment is to create incentive for new entities and inventions. The best way to do that is to reward individual wealth creation. Obama doesn't seem to understand that concept and believes govt. is the answer when govt. is the problem

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Funny that nobody on the right was bitching about that when Bush was in office. Gee, I wonder why? :mrgreen:

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

danarhea said:

Funny that nobody on the right was bitching about that when Bush was in office. Gee, I wonder why? :mrgreen:

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What do you want us to bitch about, growing economy, growing employment, national security? Bush is no longer in office, you need to man up and address Obama's results?

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:

Interesting numbers on union membership from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Notice the difference between public and private sector union membership. Says a lot about unions

Union Members Summary

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Cherry picking again i see.Note the bolded part of the snip.I believe we will see Union membership on the rise again in the near future,thanks to scot walker.:2wave:

<Earnings

In 2010, among full-time wage and salary workers, union members had median usual
weekly earnings of $917, while those who were not represented by unions had median
weekly earnings of $717. (See table 2.) In addition to coverage by a collective bar-
gaining agreement, the difference reflects a variety of influences including varia-
tions in the distributions of union members and nonunion employees by occupation, in-
dustry, firm size, or geographic region.>

Union Members Summary

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

donc said:

Cherry picking again i see.Note the bolded part of the snip.I believe we will see Union membership on the rise again in the near future,thanks to scot walker.:2wave:

<Earnings

In 2010, among full-time wage and salary workers, union members had median usual
weekly earnings of $917, while those who were not represented by unions had median
weekly earnings of $717. (See table 2.) In addition to coverage by a collective bar-
gaining agreement, the difference reflects a variety of influences including varia-
tions in the distributions of union members and nonunion employees by occupation, in-
dustry, firm size, or geographic region.>

Union Members Summary

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I find it interesting that someone like you who doesn't live in Wisconsin is so concerned about what is going on in Wisconsin. That normally is the case with liberals, it doesn't cost you a dime therefore why do you care what it costs others? Typical liberalism

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:

So you don't have an answer? Fine, I knew that all along. As is typical of you and your one line responses, you offer nothing. Some people definitely need unions and are overly dependent on them. You appear to be one of those people who relies on the union to keep you employed. Doesn't look like you understand the difference between public and private unions and collective bargaining differences. Unions caused the destruction of Detroit and it appears you won't be happy until they destroy states as well.

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I am going to jump in here if that is okay, part of my working life "25" years was spent as a manager and part of it as a union member "15" so I have a good perspective from both sides of the fence. First contracts are negotiated the auto manufacturing companies did not have to and should not have signed a contract that would not allow them to make a profit. Detroit did not retool their assembly lines and produced an automobile that did not have the fuel economy or reliability that could compete with foreign car manufacturers. As a manager I saw some pretty bad upper management policies just like what went on in Detroit. If you have a manufacturing line that requires more man power and still can not produce the same quality and quantity as your competitor pardon the expression but you are in deep water.

A manager has the responsibility to promote a working environment that is conducive to getting the work done in a timely professional standard, workers are people and react to the working environment . A manager that plays favorites and does not apply fair and equal discipline will find his/her self with a real problem, to many managers have poor people skills.

All employees need to be held accountable for their work quality and productivity, if they are not productive if their workmanship is below standard they need to be taken aside and talked to, maybe they have a problem outside of work that is effecting their work performance or maybe they just need to be talked to, being in a union does not give anyone a life time job, union members can be fired by following a disciplinary procedure.

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:

I find it interesting that someone like you who doesn't live in Wisconsin is so concerned about what is going on in Wisconsin. That normally is the case with liberals, it doesn't cost you a dime therefore why do you care what it costs others? Typical liberalism

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And I find it interesting that you didn’t address anything that I posted. I wonder why?

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

donc said:

And I find it interesting that you didn’t address anything that I posted. I wonder why?

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There is nothing to address, union membership has been declining for years. You speculated that will change, that is your opinion, history will judge. again you ignore that this is about public unions paid by the taxpayers, not private sector unions. Guess you don't know the difference.

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:

There is nothing to address, union membership has been declining for years. You speculated that will change, that is your opinion, history will judge. again you ignore that this is about public unions paid by the taxpayers, not private sector unions. Guess you don't know the difference.

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seriously? down this path again?? the unions are not, no matter how bad you want them to be, are not, for the third time, are NOT PAID BY THE TAXPAYERS....This is a construct of your imagination, something you are trying to use to make unions look bad...you know that there is no truth to what you are saying, and that you are trying to propagate a LIE....why do you continue to trot ths obvious LIE out? are you so desparate for anything to smear the unions, that you will throw out anything and see what sticks? simply unbelievable.

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

danarhea said:

Funny that nobody on the right was bitching about that when Bush was in office. Gee, I wonder why? :mrgreen:

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Yes, people all over the right were bitching about the fact that Bush was far too supportive of the invasion of the United States by another nation, and that he flatly refused to enforce border security in the aftermath of September 11th, even though that path was the second simplest route by which unobserved terrorists can enter the United States. A whole wing of the party stood up against Bush's and McCain's repeated efforts to give amnesty to the criminal aliens infesting our land. A large part of that opposition was due to the jobs the invaders have taken from Americans and the money they're sending out of the country and the services they're consuming but not paying for.

Your claim that no one the right bitched about Bush's policies is something dropped out the back end of the Democrat donkey.

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

randel said:

seriously? down this path again?? the unions are not, no matter how bad you want them to be, are not, for the third time, are NOT PAID BY THE TAXPAYERS....This is a construct of your imagination, something you are trying to use to make unions look bad...you know that there is no truth to what you are saying, and that you are trying to propagate a LIE....why do you continue to trot ths obvious LIE out? are you so desparate for anything to smear the unions, that you will throw out anything and see what sticks? simply unbelievable.

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Public employee unions are paid for by taxpayers. The people who are supposed to represent the taxpayers are in fact whores who sell theif votes to the unions, who demand closed shop, monopoly power, and exclusivity in wage demands ("bargaining" is not the correct word to use).

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

randel said:

seriously? down this path again?? the unions are not, no matter how bad you want them to be, are not, for the third time, are NOT PAID BY THE TAXPAYERS....This is a construct of your imagination, something you are trying to use to make unions look bad...you know that there is no truth to what you are saying, and that you are trying to propagate a LIE....why do you continue to trot ths obvious LIE out? are you so desparate for anything to smear the unions, that you will throw out anything and see what sticks? simply unbelievable.

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You really don't understand public unions and no matter how many times you claim it that doesn't make it true, taxpayers fund public unions indirectly through public union employees. That seems to be a problem here for you and others, this is about public unions not private unions.

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

donc said:

Cherry picking again i see.Note the bolded part of the snip.I believe we will see Union membership on the rise again in the near future,thanks to scot walker.:2wave:

<Earnings

In 2010, among full-time wage and salary workers, union members had median usual
weekly earnings of $917, while those who were not represented by unions had median
weekly earnings of $717. (See table 2.) In addition to coverage by a collective bar-
gaining agreement, the difference reflects a variety of influences including varia-
tions in the distributions of union members and nonunion employees by occupation, in-
dustry, firm size, or geographic region.>

Union Members Summary

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This means the unions were paid 25% too much.

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:

You really don't understand public unions and no matter how many times you claim it that doesn't make it true, taxpayers fund public unions indirectly through public union employees. That seems to be a problem here for you and others, this is about public unions not private unions.

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what you are doing is propagating a falsehood, a LIE..you are being DISHONEST, and that is a mild term for what you are doing.

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Mayor Snorkum said:

This means the unions were paid 25% too much.

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perhaps the other was paid TOO LITTLE.

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

randel said:

perhaps the other was paid TOO LITTLE.

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Amazing that someone who has absolutely nothing invested in the business and not a concern about getting a paycheck would be telling business what to pay their workers. that defines unions to a tee.

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

randel said:

what you are doing is propagating a falsehood, a LIE..you are being DISHONEST, and that is a mild term for what you are doing.

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Not a falsehood at all, it is a fact. You don't seem to understand the difference between a public union and a private union. We have been through this over and over and yet you are the one ignoring reality.

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:

Amazing that someone who has absolutely nothing invested in the business and not a concern about getting a paycheck would be telling business what to pay their workers. that defines unions to a tee.

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and i continue to see that you are jealous of a group of people banding together to negotiate for a fair wage and benefits...why do you hate the working man/woman so much?

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:

Not a falsehood at all, it is a fact. You don't seem to understand the difference between a public union and a private union. We have been through this over and over and yet you are the one ignoring reality.

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perhaps i have to come out and say it straight up...YOU ARE LYING. you are correct, we have been through this over and over, and you continue to repeat the same lie, over and over, so desparate are you to paint unions in a bad light.

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

randel said:

what you are doing is propagating a falsehood, a LIE..you are being DISHONEST, and that is a mild term for what you are doing.

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The logic of unions being funded by tax payers basically means that a good number of consumer businesses are funded by tax payers as well since teachers grocery shop, buy houses, computers, cars, etc. Its an interesting logical exercise, but it can't pass the smell test for that reason.

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

megaprogman said:

The logic of unions being funded by tax payers basically means that a good number of consumer businesses are funded by tax payers as well since teachers grocery shop, buy houses, computers, cars, etc. Its an interesting logical exercise, but it can't pass the smell test for that reason.

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exactly......

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:

There is nothing to address, union membership has been declining for years. You speculated that will change, that is your opinion, history will judge. again you ignore that this is about public unions paid by the taxpayers, not private sector unions. Guess you don't know the difference.

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We had a chance to settle whose opinions on this was right, unfortunately you ran. As for as I’m concerned we might as well we move on to other topics of concern. It makes one wonder why you keep picking at an and old scab?

Gluten for punishment? It truly makes you look…well, better take your afternoon nap.:2wave:

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

randel said:

and i continue to see that you are jealous of a group of people banding together to negotiate for a fair wage and benefits...why do you hate the working man/woman so much?

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When those people have nothing invested nor any concept of investment, company profit or loss, or competition because they get their pay and nothing else matters they don't have a lot of credibility. Most people understand that thus the drop in union membership. Most people seem to realize they don't need unions to take care of them and can do it quite well themselves.

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

randel said:

perhaps i have to come out and say it straight up...YOU ARE LYING. you are correct, we have been through this over and over, and you continue to repeat the same lie, over and over, so desparate are you to paint unions in a bad light.

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Calling me a liar is what you do best, doesn't change the fact that taxpayers fund public unions.

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:

When those people have nothing invested nor any concept of investment, company profit or loss, or competition because they get their pay and nothing else matters they don't have a lot of credibility. Most people understand that thus the drop in union membership. Most people seem to realize they don't need unions to take care of them and can do it quite well themselves.

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working men and women have no credibility?:shock: are you serious?(forget i asked, i'm still in shock) do you forget who it is that makes the product/performs the service for the employer? without these men and women, nothing gets done, no money is made, no wealth created.....is your knowledge on how the real world works really that limited?

Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:

Calling me a liar is what you do best, doesn't change the fact that taxpayers fund public unions.

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called you a liar? sure, i'll go with that...does the truth hurt? your being dishonest, if the shoe fits, wear it