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Thread: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

  1. #601
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    I'm not going to play silly games here with you. What I said still stands - if you want to discuss this in detail, make a new thread.

    Your question is answered in parts.
    Revenue directly decreased after the tax cuts, not increased.
    It increased later, as it always does in time because of two reasons:
    A) an inflating dollar
    B) an expanding workforce

    I know you won't accept these because you do everything in nominal rather than real dollars, or my favorite "80's dollars", so I'm not expecting anything.
    I'm going to wade in on this.... tax cuts are not an expense to the government, however, they immediately do reduce tax receipts

    I think the argument should be do tax cuts tend to help growth, which in turn generates more tax receipts From what I have seen, they seem to, but I think that more depends on your political views more then anything else. It seems in the past that more often then not, we have had good growth after tax cuts. But that is difficult, if not impossible to prove, because you can't compare it to something that didn't happen ( the tax cuts not happening)

    My personal opinion on this, is that our taxation system, is really a delicate thing. When tax rates are too high, people tend to hide money, (people in the upper incomes) and it restricts spending. Taxes that are too low, will force the government to have to cut programs that are no longer affordable (if there is to be a balanced budget) or operate at a deficit.

    What has happened, is that since 1982 or 83, we basically have had a good time of things, I remember seeing a chart where tax revenue has risen nearly every single year since then, and our government has done nothing but overspend what they have taken in in every one of them years (maybe one when they hadn't) That's why I have said over and over, we don't have a taxation problem in this country we have a spending problem.

    This would be akin to anyone here, working for 35 years, getting a raise every year, never saving a penny, and going further in debt every year, then losing your job, and blaming your boss because you are deep in debt, and have no savings.
    Last edited by The Barbarian; 03-11-11 at 11:53 AM.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    I realize this is an incredibly cynical comment I'm about to make, but it's true, so here goes.

    Today's earthquake/tsunami in Japan is especially bad news for the Wisconsin union protesters. They'll be second bill for a while now on the nightly news.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    ^ As sick as I know that is, I thought the same thing.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    I realize this is an incredibly cynical comment I'm about to make, but it's true, so here goes.

    Today's earthquake/tsunami in Japan is especially bad news for the Wisconsin union protesters. They'll be second bill for a while now on the nightly news.
    May be cynical, but it's a good call. Seems the news organizations can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazed View Post
    Done

    Now sarge....it's your turn..you sound awfully sure of yourself.
    I'm not playing your game. I don't need to wager anything. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But so far, thousands have signed recall petitions against Repub state Senators. Polls show a majority are unhappy with Walker and Repub legislators. In fact, a new poll conducted in two WI Repub Senator's districts, a majority of their own constituents said if a recall election were held right now, they'd vote for someone other than their Repub Senators. Things aren't looking good for Walker. It's just a matter of time.

    The Plum Line - Poll: Majorities support recall of two Wisconsin GOP senators

    I've got an advance look at some new polling by Survey USA that finds solid majorities in two GOP senate districts support the recall of their senators. The poll was paid for by MoveOn, which obviously has an ax to grind in this fight, but Survey USA is a respected non-partisan pollster that's routinely cited by major news organizations.

    Here are the numbers, sent over by a MoveOn official, in the districts of GOP senators Dan Kapanke and Randy Hopper.

    When asked if they would vote for Hopper or someone else if a recall election were held right now, 54 percent said they'd vote for someone else, versus only 43 percent they'd vote for Hopper.

    In Kapanke's district, the numbers were even worse: 57 percent said they'd vote for someone else, versus only 41 percent who said they'd vote for Kapanke.

    It gets even more interesting. The poll was taken yesterday, before last night's events, and fifty-six percent of voters in Kapanke's district, and 54% of voters in Hopper's district, said if their Senator voted for Walker's plan, it would make them more likely to vote for someone else. Last night, both Senators did vote for Walker's rollback of bargaining rights.


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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    I'm not playing your game. I don't need to wager anything. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But so far, thousands have signed recall petitions against Repub state Senators. Polls show a majority are unhappy with Walker and Repub legislators. In fact, a new poll conducted in two WI Repub Senator's districts, a majority of their own constituents said if a recall election were held right now, they'd vote for someone other than their Repub Senators. Things aren't looking good for Walker. It's just a matter of time.
    the unions are throwing a lot of muscle behind this issue trying to drive public relations toward their cause.

    but the problem for them is these changes are going to be an improvement on the economy, and no amount of propaganda will change that.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    I'm going to wade in on this.... tax cuts are not an expense to the government, however, they immediately do reduce tax receipts

    I think the argument should be do tax cuts tend to help growth, which in turn generates more tax receipts From what I have seen, they seem to, but I think that more depends on your political views more then anything else. It seems in the past that more often then not, we have had good growth after tax cuts. But that is difficult, if not impossible to prove, because you can't compare it to something that didn't happen ( the tax cuts not happening)

    My personal opinion on this, is that our taxation system, is really a delicate thing. When tax rates are too high, people tend to hide money, (people in the upper incomes) and it restricts spending. Taxes that are too low, will force the government to have to cut programs that are no longer affordable (if there is to be a balanced budget) or operate at a deficit.

    What has happened, is that since 1982 or 83, we basically have had a good time of things, I remember seeing a chart where tax revenue has risen nearly every single year since then, and our government has done nothing but overspend what they have taken in in every one of them years (maybe one when they hadn't) That's why I have said over and over, we don't have a taxation problem in this country we have a spending problem.

    This would be akin to anyone here, working for 35 years, getting a raise every year, never saving a penny, and going further in debt every year, then losing your job, and blaming your boss because you are deep in debt, and have no savings.
    You make some valid points here and I agree with many of them. Tax cuts will indeed lower revenue initially due to the fact that it takes time for those cuts to appear in people's paychecks or in the case of rebates to get to the public and thus into the economy. What far too many ignore is that we have a consumer based economy where almost 2/3 of GDP is consumption or consumer spending. It is that spending that drives demand and demand is what creates jobs. Too many ignore that and focus purely on simple math which is that if you cut tax rates and get nothing out of it you are going to lose revenue. Makes sense, however that ignores human behavior and what actual people do with the extra money in their paychecks.

    I never did better than during the Reagan years with his 10-10-5% tax cuts. I paid down debt making me less dependent and more self sufficient which helped me and gave the creditors money to help others. Whether someone spends, saves, invests, or pays down debt that helps grow the economy by creating investment capital. Tax revenue as a result grows when there are more people paying taxes and that comes from Jobs.

    Right now we have 15 million unemployed Americans and the only way to put them back to work is to create more demand for jobs and that comes from tax cuts.

    Now how does that relate to the thread topic? Walker has put his reputation on the line and claimed that he will create over 200000 jobs by reducing collective bargaining rights which formerly were a tax on business. By eliminating some of their rights the business environment improves attracting more to the state. If that works Walker will be re-elected, if not, he will lose. I favor him being re-elected. We shall see.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    the unions are throwing a lot of muscle behind this issue trying to drive public relations toward their cause.

    but the problem for them is these changes are going to be an improvement on the economy, and no amount of propaganda will change that.
    And when the state legislature is controlled by Dems and Walker is recalled and replaced by a Dem (look at the polls in WI. Look at the recall efforts. The numbers speak for themselves. It will happen), bargaining rights will be reinstated. The people of WI are angry. You can't change that. No amount of fake boogieman arguments from the right is going to change that.


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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    the unions are throwing a lot of muscle behind this issue trying to drive public relations toward their cause.

    but the problem for them is these changes are going to be an improvement on the economy, and no amount of propaganda will change that.
    Hard to believe that's not the case considering all the muscle the Dems are throwing at this thing. It's a life or death issue for the Democrat party. Such a wonderful thing that the evil partnership that's threatening the survival of the entire nation is finally seeing the light of day.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    And when the state legislature is controlled by Dems and Walker is recalled and replaced by a Dem (look at the polls in WI. Look at the recall efforts. The numbers speak for themselves. It will happen), bargaining rights will be reinstated. The people of WI are angry. You can't change that. No amount of fake boogieman arguments from the right is going to change that.
    Yes but consider the cost of those bargaining "rights." You're not supposed to bleed the milk herd. Businesses are leaving. Money is leaving. Taxpayers don't like being eaten alive to pay off Democrat Party supporters.

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