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Thread: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    This is good, I am glad it was voted on and passed. It makes me laugh to see the protestors calling the Republicans cowards when their own democrats are running away and have fled like true cowards for almost three weeks now.
    Honestly I don't see the need for this kind of rhetoric. The Democrats took advantage of the only procedural loophole that was available to them. They delayed the legistlation and brought it to national attention. Nothing in that says "coward" to me. I could see the Republicans doing the exact same thing if the Senate numbers had been reversed and the Democrats had been ready to pass a 50% tax hike on the wealthy. I actually admire them because their only options were the safe bet of staying around and voting no and watching the bill go through anyway or taking off out of state, drawing the ire of the media, and putting their political careers on the line when all they could hope for was delaying the vote. If anything they chose the less cowardly option and the only reason conservatives hate them for it is because it made the issue into a much bigger deal than it would have been otherwise.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Honestly I don't see the need for this kind of rhetoric. The Democrats took advantage of the only procedural loophole that was available to them. They delayed the legistlation and brought it to national attention. Nothing in that says "coward" to me. I could see the Republicans doing the exact same thing if the Senate numbers had been reversed and the Democrats had been ready to pass a 50% tax hike on the wealthy. I actually admire them because their only options were the safe bet of staying around and voting no and watching the bill go through anyway or taking off out of state, drawing the ire of the media, and putting their political careers on the line when all they could hope for was delaying the vote. If anything they chose the less cowardly option and the only reason conservatives hate them for it is because it made the issue into a much bigger deal than it would have been otherwise.
    If they wanted media attention all they had to do was call the media. I'm sure that each one of em has the media's number on a speed dial.

    As it was they refused a quorum call, which is against the law, and those politicians fled the state. I don't know how you were raised but my folks taught me that fleeing from your responsibilities is the cowards way out.
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Which is BS. The Teachers Union had already agreed to ALL of the monetary concessions. What this is really about is the Koch Brothers' influence over the Governor, who is breaking the unions, while lying that it is all about being fiscally responsible.
    Mayor Snorkum is aware that state fiscal solvency cannot be gained for any state that denies workers the freedom to decline union membership. As long as the unions can extort dues from unwilling members, that union will continue to have a disproportionate influence in state politics.

    Naturally, Walker's move was not a union busting move. All that has to happen for the unions to retain their current abusive position is for their membership to voluntarily remit the dues required for membership.

    That'll mean, however, that the unions will have to start serving the union members needs, not those of the union leaders and politicians. Regardless, and decline of union membership will be the result of unions failing to attract members. One cannot count today's 100% membership as valid since that membership was extorted.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    False. The Police and Fire Departments formally backed Scott Walker for governor and then turned on him when he went after collective bargaining. The GOP is overreaching.

    One thing I always thought conservatives could understand was that people don't like it when you take away their rights - aren't they always whining about gun rights and the like - they're done.
    What right is being removed?

    Mayor Snorkum sees that every single public employee still retains their right to join or remain in the labor union of their choice. They even still have the right to form competing unions.

    They now have the right to decline union membership. They didn't have that before.

    What, exactly, has any Cheesehead who isn't a union boss or Democrat politician lost here?

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Last edited by Chappy; 03-11-11 at 02:41 AM.
    “Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible.” — Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The police and fire departments do not make up all of Walkers voters and generally republicans are anti-union while democrats are pro-union. So yes the republicans are supporting and enacting legislation their voters want and opposing and preventing legislation their voters do not want. I said the same thing when the democrats fled to prevent a quorum.



    How so?



    Unless it is stated in the constitution then you can not call something a right. you and I have the right to keep and bear arms without the government infringing on that right because it says so in the 2nd amendment. Where does it say that you have the right to join a union (or some cases forced to join a union if you want a certain job,which is the opposite of something being a right)?
    Amendment 1 -
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


    That's where.

    What's more important is that the Constitution does not allow anyone to compel membership in any non-military organization, and that would include trade unions.

    However, no one has lost any rights in Wisconsin except the union leaders' right to someone else's paycheck.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    collective bargaining isn't being forbidden, it is being restrained.

    in the week I have seen the left argue on this subject, I don't think I have seen an intellectually honest argument out of one of you yet.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Absolutely! And now that Collective Barganing is off the table we will see if all that talk of unions already agreeing to the financial aspects were genuine or just a slimy tactic.

    j-mac
    that's an excellent point that i had not thought of.

    another thing that i am going to be very curious to find out is what percent of Wisconsin Teachers discover that they would rather not pay union protection racket fees dues.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    1. The police and firefighters made up some of the GOP's constituents and I imagine they were not the only ones upset about this. People who join unions because they want the rights and protection won't support someone who is clearly going after them next.
    What about the people who feel forced to join the union because that's a requirement for the job? How many of those are in the public sector?

    2. Overreaching is pissing off your constituents and much of the country. The GOP is usually much better about being sneaky with their anti-working class policies and fashioning themselves as champions of all Americans. They're getting sloppy.
    Overreaching is the act of attempting to do more than can be accomplished. It can't be defined as overreaching when it's been done.

    3. People call rights whatever they want to call them. We could add a right to the constitution if we felt like it- see the Civil Rights and Women's rights movements. The point is, whatever people 'perceive' as rights, they'll fight for them and get angry when someone takes them away esp. when there is a history based on fighting for them.
    People are usually wrong.

    People do not have a right to have their wages taken by the state and handed to a union boss. The people have the right to pay their own union bosses themselves.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    collective bargaining isn't being forbidden, it is being restrained.

    in the week I have seen the left argue on this subject, I don't think I have seen an intellectually honest argument out of one of you yet.
    exactly. i've heard alot of hollering about rights (civil rights? really? being able to force people into a union and coercing them to pay dues is a right?) and accusations of conspiracy (is it a conspiracy if you don't try to hide it?).

    but i haven't heard alot of solid, policy-driven analysis about why this is a bad idea. i especially haven't seen anything remotely providing backing for the "extremist" charge that keeps getting tossed around.

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