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Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

The Barbarian said:
Well in this case at least you will have to find someone besides Reagan to blame for the decline of unions, seeing unions seem to reach their peak in about 1945, and have been steadily declining since 1955.

So what in your opinion has been causing that decline, there has to be a reason. I know I have my thoughts on this, just wondering what yours are? I'm sure it's going to have something to do with the rich, but wonders what sort of spin you are going to use for it.
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I think people forgot how important unions were to improve working conditions and compensation and to provide a balance to corporate influence over government.

The people of Germany had a similar experience in history. Lets, hope we don't allow the same to happen here. It is why I stand with the workers and their right to bargain collectively.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

The Prof said:
i'm a public school teacher and there is little doubt that the cta and the nea are all about the profession and not the community, the country or the kids
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With no quorum, only one party, the vote isn't legal. Of course, the governor has the power to do anything he wants, but that would make him a dictator, not the people's choice.

ricksfolly
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

The Barbarian said:
So what has been causing that decline,
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Moving all those companies overseas, robots replacing workers, closed shop no longer legal, partisan governors with too much power.

ricksfolly
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

The GOP's agenda: American quality labor at Chinese labor prices.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
I think people forgot how important unions were to improve working conditions and compensation and to provide a balance to corporate influence over government.

The people of Germany had a similar experience in history. Lets, hope we don't allow the same to happen here. It is why I stand with the workers and their right to bargain collectively.
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Still doesn't answer why there has been a steady decline in union membership since 1955.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

disneydude said:
The GOP's agenda: American quality labor at Chinese labor prices.
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Oh, that's just silly. #1 -- I don't think the GOP is working against the American worker. #2 -- It would be counter-productive to do so....in fact, ridiculous to do so...since, for the most part, if Middle Class America can't buy your product, you're going to fail.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

The Barbarian said:
Still doesn't answer why there has been a steady decline in union membership since 1955.
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It does for me.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:
What exactly is wrong with you? Forced union membership and forced dues! You don't think forcing someone to spend "their" money on union dues isn't telling someone what to do with their money? You just cannot admit you are wrong.
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Aha, now were getting somewhere. Your contention is, that a union contract is forcing someone to pay for something that they receive. Hardly; when a shop/business/whatever, is organized it’s a straight up vote. When Teamsters Local 959, organized the Wasila Alaska police dept, it was a straight up vote of “should Teamster Local 959 represent the 49 officers, dispatchers and administrative support personnel of the Wasila Alaska police dept? No weasel words there.

As for forced Union dues? It’s odd that you would even ask that. You pay for the service that you receive, thats the good old American way. There are many good reasons to be a member of a union; not the least is you can have a voice that will be heard over grievances that more than likely would have otherwise been summarily dismissed.

I can understand the reason for a Police or Fire dept wanting to organize,its strange that you don,t. According to your fav site, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the rate of workplace deaths is 52.9 percent higher in states that have open shop laws.

Of course this factoid also enters into the equation, the average union worker makes $10,400 more per year, for, maybe, $50 dollar a month dues or whatever it is. :thumbs:

Now that I have answered a couple of questions for you, maybe you will answer mine as well.

Can you explain what you meant by this statement, from post #893, where you said that public unions live off the taxpayer’s dollars? :2wave:
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
It does for me.
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-laughs- okay .. so you have no idea what has caused the decline .. I can live with that
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

disneydude said:
The GOP's agenda: American quality labor at Chinese labor prices.
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More like, American quality labor without unions bending taxpayers over a chair with no KY jelly.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

The Barbarian said:
Now donc, think about what you just asked. Because the answer is basically “yes.” who are those peoples employer? Is it not the city or state they work for? Seeing union dues are taken from a city/state employee's wages, I'm not sure what other way it could be put. I'm not sure where your city/state get the biggest majority of it's money from, but every state/city I have lived in, the money comes from property taxes, state income tax, or various other taxes within that state.

If that is indeed the case, then one could easily enough say, that public unions are funded by by taxpayer's dollars, as it's taxpayer's dollars that pay the wages of public workers, from which union dues are deducted.
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Where you work are your required to tell you employer what you spend your money on? I would hope we haven’t slipped this far into fascism yet…but with this kinda thinking I’m beginning to worry.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

donc said:
Aha, now were getting somewhere. Your contention is, that a union contract is forcing someone to pay for something that they receive. Hardly; when a shop/business/whatever, is organized it’s a straight up vote. When Teamsters Local 959, organized the Wasila Alaska police dept, it was a straight up vote of “should Teamster Local 959 represent the 49 officers, dispatchers and administrative support personnel of the Wasila Alaska police dept? No weasel words there.

As for forced Union dues? It’s odd that you would even ask that. You pay for the service that you receive, thats the good old American way. There are many good reasons to be a member of a union; not the least is you can have a voice that will be heard over grievances that more than likely would have otherwise been summarily dismissed.

I can understand the reason for a Police or Fire dept wanting to organize,its strange that you don,t. According to your fav site, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the rate of workplace deaths is 52.9 percent higher in states that have open shop laws.

Of course this factoid also enters into the equation, the average union worker makes $10,400 more per year, for, maybe, $50 dollar a month dues or whatever it is. :thumbs:

Now that I have answered a couple of questions for you, maybe you will answer mine as well.

Can you explain what you meant by this statement, from post #893, where you said that public unions live off the taxpayer’s dollars? :2wave:
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Donc, stop trolling, you know exactly what I mean, public unions get their money from public employees funded by the taxpayers. I am worried about that liberal education you received.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

donc said:
Where you work are your required to tell you employer what you spend your money on? I would hope we haven’t slipped this far into fascism yet…but with this kinda thinking I’m beginning to worry.
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Excuse me? I didn't say one thing about telling anyone anything. I simply said .. that a public union surely can be seen as funded by taxpayers dollars ..now if you can't follow the logic behind that ..... then so be it.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

donc said:
Can you explain what you meant by this statement, from post #893, where you said that public unions live off the taxpayer’s dollars? :2wave:
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That's pretty simple. Public unions live off public union members who only exist when they get paid, and all of their wages get paid by debt (which needs to be later paid off by taxpayers) or directly by the pool of money from taxpayers.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

The Barbarian said:
-laughs- okay .. so you have no idea what has caused the decline .. I can live with that
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You asked why I thought unions have declined over the years, and I gave you my opinion here:

Catawba - I think people forgot how important unions were to improve working conditions and compensation and to provide a balance to corporate influence over government.

The people of Germany had a similar experience in history. Lets, hope we don't allow the same to happen here. It is why I stand with the workers and their right to bargain collectively.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
You asked why I thought unions have declined over the years, and I gave you my opinion here:
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perhaps it's things like this that has turned people off towards unions ..

One of the benefits negotiated by the United Auto Workers was the jobs bank program, under which laid-off members received 95 percent of their take-home pay and benefits. More than 12,000 UAW members were paid this benefit in 2005 Each person costs GM around $100,000 to $130,000 in wages and benefits, according to internal union and company figures.

Now doing a bit of quick math, that comes out to about 1.2 Billion dollars that GM was paying in wages in 2005, for workers that weren't working.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Taylor said:
How is it cut substantially? For the current budget year, it represents almost nothing. Had you raised taxes on the rich, Obama's 1.5 trillion dollar deficit would have at best been reduced to 1.47 trillion
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Regan brought down the top tax rate from 70 to 38 percent. If it was raised back to 70 percent, where it really should be, the increased taxes would easily balance the budget with enough left over to pay back some of the national debt.

If the top 2 percent were real patriots, not just aimless, selfish hedonists, they would gladly give back the largess gift and squeak by on a measly 3 to 6 million a year.

ricksfolly
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
I think people forgot how important unions were to improve working conditions and compensation and to provide a balance to corporate influence over government.
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ah, they forgot

LOL!
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

ricksfolly said:
Regan brought down the top tax rate from 70 to 38 percent. If it was raised back to 70 percent, where it really should be, the increased taxes would easily balance the budget with enough left over to pay back some of the national debt.

If the top 2 percent were real patriots, not just aimless, selfish hedonists, they would gladly give back the largess gift and squeak by on a measly 3 to 6 million a year.

ricksfolly
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Except, the top bracket doesn't include only people earning millions, but anything 375k or above.
I give nearly as much money to charity as I do in taxes and I don't earn millions. I am not selfish at all.
 
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

ricksfolly said:
With no quorum, only one party, the vote isn't legal.
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sue him

good luck
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Conservative said:
public unions get their money from public employees funded by the taxpayers.
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No, they get their money from United States Citizens, who happen to be public employees who have the same rights as the Citizens of the rest of the country. That would also include the right to represented by the union of their choice.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

45% of union voters chose rob portman in ohio, 44% picked pat toomey (a tea drinker) in PA

Many Union Votes Go to GOP in Pa., Ohio - Washington Wire - WSJ

scott brown, #41, beat martha coakley amongst afl-cio'ers in chappaquiddick, 49 to 46

AFL-CIO Poll: Union Members Voted for Brown over Coakley in “Working Class Revolt” | Work in Progress

this trend too of union households dumping the party in power and looking to lipton is spreading nationwide

and public employees from new york to california, with illinois and michigan and wisconsin and indiana in between, are gonna be SLASHED

starting NOW

good luck
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

ricksfolly said:
Regan brought down the top tax rate from 70 to 38 percent. If it was raised back to 70 percent, where it really should be, the increased taxes would easily balance the budget with enough left over to pay back some of the national debt.

If the top 2 percent were real patriots, not just aimless, selfish hedonists, they would gladly give back the largess gift and squeak by on a measly 3 to 6 million a year.

ricksfolly
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You are kidding, right? You believe a 70% tax rate will pay down the debt and put 15 million unemployed Americans back to work. There isn't enough revenue to fund the govt. this size as you cannot take enough money from the rich to pay down the debt, no matter what the percentage. You don't seem to comprehend the size of 14.3 TRILLION dollars.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

donc said:
No, they get their money from United States Citizens, who happen to be public employees who have the same rights as the Citizens of the rest of the country. That would also include the right to represented by the union of their choice.
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This has been explained to you over and over again, a waste of time.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

donc said:
No, they get their money from United States Citizens, who happen to be public employees who have the same rights as the Citizens of the rest of the country. That would also include the right to represented by the union of their choice.
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While that's true, it doesn't negate what he said. They get their money from "public employees". "United States Citizens, who happen to be public employees" are included under the umbrella of "public employees".
 
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