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Thread: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

  1. #431
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Name one worthwhile education reform that teachers' unions have supported in the last 30 years, aside from those that directly benefited the teachers' union itself. And I'm not talking about grudgingly accepting certain reforms to avoid even more far-reaching reforms...I'd like to know one that they actually WANT, which doesn't benefit them personally.



    Imagine that, public policy will be at the mercy of what elected officials want. I think that's called democracy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Collective bargaining has two explicit goals: 1) Reduce the efficiency of government programs by increasing the cost of labor, and 2) Reduce the quality of labor by increasing job security.



    What Weingarten fails to mention is that she only proposed this process as a way to head off more serious reform efforts. She was the head of the UFT since 1998; what took her so long to even make THIS grudging, token attempt to appear to be reasonable?



    The other thing that she fails to mention is that most schools - including the ones where it's practically impossible to fire a teacher - already have a process like this, at least on paper. The problem is that it takes years to actually jump through all the hoops necessary to fire a teacher.



    Exactly, the teachers' unions have no problem supporting reforms that benefit themselves, like smaller class sizes or increasing instructional time. The problem is all the other reforms that they vociferously oppose because the benefits accrue to the students rather than the teachers.



    What an apropos way to end this essay. She thinks it's all about what kind of country we want...for the teachers. Our schools don't exist for the teachers' benefit, they exist to educate students.

    "Do we want a country in which individuals are powerless, and hard-working people are denied the ability to earn decent wages and benefits?" No, we don't. So let's get rid of the teachers' unions so that we can get some meaningful education reform in our poorest school districts.

    If smaller class size does not improve achievement, then why do test scores show the opposite? If increasing instruction time does not improve achievement, then why do test scores show the opposite? If increased teacher certification does not improve achievement, then why do test scores show the opposite?

    If unions are bad for education, why do states without unions perform lower?
    Last edited by Catawba; 03-10-11 at 06:51 PM.
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  2. #432
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Done

    Now sarge....it's your turn..you sound awfully sure of yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
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  3. #433
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazed View Post
    This just made me throw up a little bit my mouth.

    How can anyone spew a lie like this?


    The CB is about the Union members pay and benefits....it has NOTHING to do with "reforming" or "improving" education.

    You have swallowed a very large load of propaganda.
    You're absolutely right. Even a lawyer for the NEA admits it's not about the kids but about the power.

    Addressing the 2009 NEA Convention, Chanin admits, “It is not because we care about children and it is not because we have a vision of a great public school for every child. NEA and its affiliates are effective advocates because we have power.”
    Here's the video;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwxiR...e_gdata_player
    Last edited by X Factor; 03-10-11 at 06:52 PM.
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    Typical. The poll's results are not to your liking, so you dismiss them. Walker and a few Republican state Repubs won't be feeling the same as you when they get recalled.
    Right, kind of like you dismissing polls on healthcare and the Obama agenda. You seem to pick and choose the polls you want to believe. how does it feel to have the tables turned on you?

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The evidence suggests there is. A conservative think tank polled Wisconsin and found 65% opposed to Walker stripping unions of their collective bargaining rights. His approval rating has dropped substantially. He is in big trouble.
    However not all collective bargaining rights have been stripped, have they? So why distort the actual bill? Just goes to show how misinformation gains traction. Glad to see the Governor thinking about the taxpayers for a change.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    If smaller class size does not improve achievement, then why do test scores show the opposite. If increasing instruction time does not improve achievement, then why do test scores show the opposite. If increased teacher certification does not improve achievement, then why do test scores show the opposite.
    I didn't say that those things don't improve achievement. I'm a big supporter of increasing instruction time, I think teacher certification is completely useless, and I think the jury is still out on smaller class sizes. My point is not that those reforms are necessarily bad, my point is that they all directly benefit the teachers' unions and so it isn't surprising to see them support it. What I asked is if you had an example of any education reform that the teachers unions have supported which DOESN'T line their own pockets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    If unions are bad for education, why do states without unions perform lower in schoolastic achievement.
    Because test scores are a proxy for how white your state is, due to systemic discrimination. Northern (whiter) states tend to be more unionized, so it isn't surprising that unionized states have higher test scores. But once you control for ethnicity, a state like Texas actually outperforms a state like Wisconsin across the board among all ethnicities.
    iowahawk: Longhorns 17, Badgers 1
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-10-11 at 06:59 PM.
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    How many times are people going to fall for the Elites and their divide and conquer tactics like this union issue?

    Can you see its one in a long laundry list of tactics to get Americans fighting among themselves, while the rich bankers rape you?

    Becks slander of Ron Paul supporters as "nutty" and Beck's slander of MLK and liberal activists calling them "Marxists" right out of the 50's Red Scare, divide the working class handbook.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    It's called keeping the bigger picture so you don't get lost in petty little article competitions.
    TWO POINT FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS of unfunded public pensions is neither petty nor little

    2.5 trillion dollars IS the big picture

    stay up

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    TWO POINT FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS of unfunded public pensions is neither petty nor little

    2.5 trillion dollars IS the big picture

    stay up
    article competitions are petty and they don't solve budget problems.

  10. #440
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I didn't say that those things don't improve achievement. I'm a big supporter of increasing instruction time, I think teacher certification is completely useless, and I think the jury is still out on smaller class sizes. My point is not that those reforms are necessarily bad, my point is that they all directly benefit the teachers' unions and so it isn't surprising to see them support it. They don't support ANY education reform unless it lines their own pockets.
    How does smaller class size and increased instruction time line their pockets?

    Because test scores are a proxy for how white your state is, due to systemic problems in inner-city schools, and because northern (whiter) states tend to be more unionized. Once you control for ethnicity, a state like Texas actually outperforms a state like Wisconsin across the board.
    iowahawk: Longhorns 17, Badgers 1
    Imagine a right wing blogger having that opinion.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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