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Thread: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

  1. #421
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I'm crying. Oh wait...I forgot, this isn't a tyranny. We can change things.
    Sure you can, if you live in Wisconsin, In 4 years. Just like we are going to change things in two by getting rid of Obama. Amazing the similarities, how does it feel to experience what we have experienced the last two years?

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Do you live in Wisconsin? The people there will have a chance to change directions again in 4 years. by that time we will see if the budget is better and jobs are being created. Those issues alone will change the poll numbers.
    They will have a chance a lot sooner than that. There will be recall elections.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    They will have a chance a lot sooner than that. There will be recall elections.
    From what I understand there is also a recall for missing Representatives, so let's see which one occurs first? You seem to think that there is more union support than actually exists.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "Collective bargaining is a vehicle to improve services -- whether in education or other areas -- and it would hurt both workers and those they serve if that important right was lost.
    Collective bargaining has two explicit goals: 1) Reduce the efficiency of government programs by increasing the cost of labor, and 2) Reduce the quality of labor by increasing job security.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    For example, I recently proposed a way to strengthen teaching, by aligning comprehensive teacher evaluations with systems of due process. The proposal lays out a fair and expedient process to identify, improve and -- if necessary -- remove ineffective teachers.
    What Weingarten fails to mention is that she only proposed this process as a way to head off more serious reform efforts. She was the head of the UFT since 1998; what took her so long to even make THIS grudging, token attempt to appear to be reasonable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    It starts with rigorous evaluations -- the kind that many AFT unions are negotiating with their school district counterparts through the collective bargaining process. The next step is a time-limited, but real, improvement and support plan for teachers who need help -- also developed and implemented through labor-management cooperation. The final step is a hearing or adjudication process. All of this ensures that, within a finite period of time, teachers will be evaluated regularly based on agreed-upon standards of what they should know and be able to do, will receive help if they fall short of those standards, and will be removed from the classroom fairly and efficiently if they simply aren't cutting it.

    We have begun working with administrators and others to fine-tune this proposal, with the goal of implementing it in schools and school districts quickly. And the best way to do this will be through the collective bargaining process, with frontline educators and school administrators sharing responsibility for this important undertaking.
    The other thing that she fails to mention is that most schools - including the ones where it's practically impossible to fire a teacher - already have a process like this, at least on paper. The problem is that it takes years to actually jump through all the hoops necessary to fire a teacher.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    This is but one example of the improvements that have come about in our schools by giving classroom educators a voice, and a vehicle through which to strengthen teaching and learning. From adapting the school day or year to allow for more instructional time, to maintaining reasonable class size to maximize that time, to securing wraparound services that ensure students' basic needs are met -- teachers and their unions are using the collective bargaining process in ways that help kids, boost the teaching profession and promote the public good.
    Exactly, the teachers' unions have no problem supporting reforms that benefit themselves, like smaller class sizes or increasing instructional time. The problem is all the other reforms that they vociferously oppose because the benefits accrue to the students rather than the teachers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    In the end, it's a question of what kind of country we want. Do we want a country in which individuals are powerless, and hard-working people are denied the ability to earn decent wages and benefits? Americans resoundingly say "no." Yet attacks on workers, their unions and their rights continue to spread. Unlike a Colbert monologue, denying the ability of working people to improve services and secure a better life is no laughing matter."
    What an apropos way to end this essay. She thinks it's all about what kind of country we want...for the teachers. Our schools don't exist for the teachers' benefit, they exist to educate students.

    "Do we want a country in which individuals are powerless, and hard-working people are denied the ability to earn decent wages and benefits?" No, we don't. So let's get rid of the teachers' unions so that we can get some meaningful education reform in our poorest school districts.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-10-11 at 06:34 PM.
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    This just made me throw up a little bit my mouth.

    How can anyone spew a lie like this?


    The CB is about the Union members pay and benefits....it has NOTHING to do with "reforming" or "improving" education.

    You have swallowed a very large load of propaganda.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You are misinformed. Teachers use their collective bargaining rights to improve reform and funding to address poor, inner-city minority students. Because the priority has been for other things such as corporate welfare, is not the fault of the educators. Without collective bargaining, education will be at the mercy of whatever the corporate elected officials decide it should be.
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    haha. maybe you can look to have the last election replaced with a rasmussen poll. hell, lets do away with elections altogether and let things get decided by random telephone polling.

    /sarcasm
    Typical. The poll's results are not to your liking, so you dismiss them. Walker and a few Republican state Repubs won't be feeling the same as you when they get recalled.


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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    From what I understand there is also a recall for missing Representatives, so let's see which one occurs first? You seem to think that there is more union support than actually exists.
    The evidence suggests there is. A conservative think tank polled Wisconsin and found 65% opposed to Walker stripping unions of their collective bargaining rights. His approval rating has dropped substantially. He is in big trouble.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Cool, accept my wager Sarge, Walker gets recalled I leave the website, he doesn't, you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    Typical. The poll's results are not to your liking, so you dismiss them. Walker and a few Republican state Repubs won't be feeling the same as you when they get recalled.
    Obama is NOT 50 feet tall, he is ONE inch deep.
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazed View Post
    Cool, accept my wager Sarge, Walker gets recalled I leave the website, he doesn't, you do?
    I'll make a bet with ya. If Walker doesn't get recalled, then I'll let you choose my avatar for a month and if he does get recalled then I get to choose your avatar for a month. How does that sound?

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Sure you can, if you live in Wisconsin, In 4 years. Just like we are going to change things in two by getting rid of Obama. Amazing the similarities, how does it feel to experience what we have experienced the last two years?
    Whatever you've experienced in two years when Americans were finally guaranteed a fair shot at healthcare will be nothing compared to what I experienced for 8 years under an incompetent president who threw away my tax dollars on fruitless ventures.

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