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Thread: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

  1. #361
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    This is simply rationalizing your point by finding something different and making it fit. Which is kind of my point. For example, collective bargaining is what brought about the unfundable deals in the first place that is part of the financial crisis. Polls and election results before and after Walker being voted in showed WI voters were in favor of actions to fix the financial situation in their state. Fixing it in the short term is irrelevant if a problem will come back shortly thereafter. Thus, Walker is attempting to fight the cause not the symptom. As such, while voters dislike how he's doing it he's also doing what they asked based on polls and election results. Thus I could rationalize he IS doing the will of the people.

    That's the issue with polls as your main method of coming to a conclussion on this kind of stuff, there's always a different poll and a different way to view it.
    Collective bargaining was the process where public servants negotiated with taxpayers as to how much of their salary was to be put in benefits. There is nothing unfundable about them. A decision was made that tax cuts to business was more important than honoring the contracts made with the workers. As Wisconsin voters have pointed out, Walker did not mention ending collective bargaining during his campaign and they are feeling buyer's remorse. Polls are only an indication of that dissatisfaction.

    I support workers rights over corporate interest myself.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #362
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    It wasn't illegal, that's just talking points.
    The law requires 24 hour notice, which was not provided:

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    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #363
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Democrats leaving the state and protesters doing millions of dollars in damage to the state capitol says it all about how childish liberals are. The reality is, elections have consequences according to "your" President and one of those consequences in Wisconsin is the Republicans gaining control. Instead of accepting that and participating in the debate politicans ran and protesters from all over the country decended on the Capitol inflicting damage and acting like the spoiled children they are.
    There wasn't a debate. Republicans were going to pass the bill regardless of what Democrats said. The only way to stall the process and try to negotiate or find a way to prevent the bill from passing and leave to it a later date when more DEBATE could be had was to leave. Republicans were not interested in debate and as many conservatives in this thread have said or implied, they shouldn't have been, because compromise is weak and 'this is what the voters wanted'.

    This is where you reveal how illusion forms the foundation of your arguments.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    What if the shoe was on the other foot, and republicans felt they could simply up and leave a democratic vote whenever they wished?

    What a joke this has become. Now the union protestors have stormed the capitol; all because those same democrats wouldn't partake in a legit democratic process.

    Fine, screw it. Whenever republicans disagree with a proposed vote let them flee for 3 weeks and then complain about their manuever being outmanueverd.
    I don't know what other said, but I've already said that both Republicans and Democrats were doing what they were supposed to do in this situation: working in the interest of their constituents. If the Republicans left - I would feel the same way. Politicians are supposed to work for their voters.

    And Democrats do not 'simply up and leave a democratic vote whenever they wish'. They left because Walker forced this without sufficient discussion or debate and it was a bill that severely hurt their voters' interests. If Dems left whenever they want, then nothing would ever be voted on. Cool off the hyperbole.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    There wasn't a debate. Republicans were going to pass the bill regardless of what Democrats said. The only way to stall the process and try to negotiate or find a way to prevent the bill from passing and leave to it a later date when more DEBATE could be had was to leave. Republicans were not interested in debate and as many conservatives in this thread have said or implied, they shouldn't have been, because compromise is weak and 'this is what the voters wanted'.

    This is where you reveal how illusion forms the foundation of your arguments.
    Justifying what the Democrat Legislators did because they lost the election? Elections have consequences according to Obama but apparently that is only when Democrats win elections. Didn't the voters make a choice in November?

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I don't know what other said, but I've already said that both Republicans and Democrats were doing what they were supposed to do in this situation: working in the interest of their constituents.
    Good, then you agree that Republicans were acting in their constituent's best interest by passing the law as they did.

    tit for tat

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  7. #367
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    You must be joking. It's not a subversion of the democratic process. When you feel that your voters are under attack, you stand up for them. The Democrats left to stall the vote in order to protect their constituents' interests - this is why we vote for who we vote for. They left in hopes of stalling the process, finding laws that prevented Walker's actions and perhaps reaching negotiations that kept collective bargaining in tact. These types of actions are an expression of democratic ideals - voting is NOT the only way.
    Okay, lets take your thought process one step further … many of the new representatives elected in 2010 ran on a platform of repealing the health care bill.
    So by your same standard, they were elected to do just that, by any and all means possible. If they can't repeal it … then they should de-fund it.... do anything and everything, to stop Obama care. That is their duty to the people that put them in office.
    So I presume that you will be on the side of republicans to do just that ??
    Last edited by The Barbarian; 03-10-11 at 04:11 PM.

  8. #368
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    death threats...

    surprised?

    where's krugman, where's the nyt ed staff?

    The State Department of Justice confirms that it is investigating several death threats against a number of lawmakers in response to the legislature's move to strip employees of many collective bargaining rights. Among the threats the Justice Department is investigationg is one that was emailed to Republican Senators Wednesday night. Newsradio 620 WTMJ has obtained that email. The following is the unedited email:

    Please put your things in order because you will be killed and your familes
    will also be killed due to your actions in the last 8 weeks. Please explain
    to them that this is because if we get rid of you and your families then it
    will save the rights of 300,000 people and also be able to close the deficit
    that you have created. I hope you have a good time in hell. Read below for
    more information on possible scenarios in which you will die.

    I as well as many
    others know where you and your family live, it's a matter of public records.
    We have all planned to assult you by arriving at your house and putting a
    nice little bullet in your head. However, we decided that we wouldn't leave
    it there. So we have also built several bombs that we have placed
    in various locations around the areas in which we know that you frequent.
    This includes, your house, your car, the state capitol, and well I won't
    tell you all of them because that's just no fun. Since we know that you are
    not smart enough to figure out why this is happening to you we have decided
    to make it perfectly clear to you. If you and your goonies feel that it's
    necessary to strip the rights of 300,000 people and ruin their lives, making
    them unable to feed, clothe, and provide the necessities to their families
    and themselves then We Will "get rid of" (in which I mean kill) you.
    Please make your peace with God as soon as possible and
    say goodbye to your loved ones we will not wait any longer. YOU WILL DIE!!!!
    Capitol Chaos: Lawmakers Get Death Threats | Newsradio 620 - Milwaukee, Wisconsin News, Talk, Sports, Weather | Local Headlines

    a nutball or two sending an email is one thing

    but how long do you think the thousands of seiu's will be able to maintain decorum

    ie, restrain themselves

    good luck with em

    stay up, or we'll getcha on civility too
    Last edited by The Prof; 03-10-11 at 04:15 PM.

  9. #369
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Justifying what the Democrat Legislators did because they lost the election? Elections have consequences according to Obama but apparently that is only when Democrats win elections. Didn't the voters make a choice in November?
    Oh, now I see you're problem. You think that when some people vote for one party, citizens who either didn't vote for them or disagree with their actions should just lay down a take it. No. Also, I'm not justifying. There is a difference between explaining and justifying. Why can't you just take an argument for what it is without attaching some subjective, partisan meaning to it?

  10. #370
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Oh, now I see you're problem. You think that when some people vote for one party, citizens who either didn't vote for them or disagree with their actions should just lay down a take it. No. Also, I'm not justifying. There is a difference between explaining and justifying. Why can't you just take an argument for what it is without attaching some subjective, partisan meaning to it?
    I think that Legislators who lose shouldn't run away from the debate nor do I think that people protesting should do millions of dollars worth of damage to the Capitol that the taxpayers are going to have to pay for. You have a different opinion?

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