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Thread: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

  1. #251
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    People will say they are against deficits - they are also against cutting pretty much every program except foreign aid.
    The tea party isn't going to be around for very long if these are the kinds of stunts its going to pull.
    What about the stunt pulled by the democrats by running away from home?
    They were given plenty of time to go back. Then they started the threats of recalls and one of them had sent for an absentee ballot for April. It was obvious they weren't coming back any time soon.

    The Republicans were pretty gutsy to stand up to the Unions that way, in my opinion. Only one voted against it. We'll see how he does when he's up for re-election. If you're right, he'll win.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    However, the Wisconsin legislature has done this in such a way that it will be immediately appealed and overturned. The state will then be back to square one, minus the court and lawyer fees.

    It might have made them feel really, really good, but that feeling is only going to last a really, really short time. They have to do things right, legally. Unless this is nothing more that a partisian pep rally. If so, good job.
    From what I am hearing, this has little chance of being overturned. The WI senate sought and received the legal opinions of 3 non-partisan sources - including the non-partisan individual that handles the rules in the senate (can't recall the name of the office). While I wasn't certain when I first heard this, I have come to the conclusion that the "we will challenge" and "it's illegal" is really just a lot of smoke.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    that's correct. people are generally against ending collective bargaining rights.

    but people are also in favor of being a right to work state.

    and overwhelmingly people favor the right to representative government (which is what the bill actually expanded).


    it seems you can get the majority of Americans to support about anything so long as you slap the word "rights" onto a phrase that might not be crystal clear its' definition to most poll respondents.




    as for the recall efforts.... i'm thinking for the vast majority of Wisconsin's citizens, this issue fades. the Unions will remember (expect Wisconsin to be absolutely drowning in Union money in a couple of months), but the electorate? school will go on, and i doubt they will care.


    UNLESS the unions are actually stupid enough to call a general strike, as there have been some rumblings of them doing so.

    if that happens, expect to see any union support plummet fast.
    I watched Big Union guy Ed Schultz last night. Poor baby was kind of down in the dumps. However, he was still trying to stir up the runaway dems by asking "what now, a strike? Can you all go on strike? Blah blah blah"
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    To your second point, yes, it is. In this way, however? Not at all. This issue is being blown to national scale. Even if the poll you showed earlier was representative of actual changing ideals rather than the meaning of the words, this is not in any way what the average american would want.
    Most people remain in the moderate portion of the scale and won't like the extremist behavior currently being shown.
    Regardless of what implications this bill has on finances, what do you think the average person will think when they hear that these guys stripped the bill of all "financial aspects" and passed a bill purely to end collective bargaining rights? they won't see it as being responsible, they'll see it as ending rights, even if those rights never existed in the first place.
    They'll now how the choice of whether to join the Union or not. The only ones losing rights are the union leaders right to forcibly take dues and make someone join.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    what, are you against freedom of speech?
    The Koch bro. give a few million to a party and all the Dems can do is whine. Now if George Soros kicks the bucket or starts giving to the Republicans, they might have a reason to piss and moan about it.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    I watched Big Union guy Ed Schultz last night. Poor baby was kind of down in the dumps. However, he was still trying to stir up the runaway dems by asking "what now, a strike? Can you all go on strike? Blah blah blah"
    ....as disconnected from reality as Democrats have been on the national level, i just can't see them being that stupid.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    It seems like a lot of people here are confused as to what collective bargaining is.

    A big part of it is the ability to keep employers to stick to agreements made with employees.

    It's not a process that forces employers to do whatever employees want of them, simply assures that employees are able to negotiate with their bosses, and that any agreements made stay in practice.
    In Public Unions the employers are politicians who benefit from doing favors for the Unions. It's the taxpayers who pay the bills and have no say in the matter.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Well, I'm a pragmatist. I have no problem with policies that advance society's well-being, even if they aren't the most all-encompassing policies I can imagine. Better to pick one's battles.



    Except I didn't view it through that prism, you did. You're the one who keeps referring to it bringing us back to Adam Smith's time. This line of thinking is essentially "300 years ago they didn't have Policy X, and now they do. Therefore repealing Policy X will cause society to regress 300 years." This, of course, is wholly illogical, as substituting any modern policy with which YOU disagree will quickly demonstrate.
    You are assuming that my referring to Adam Smith's time is me saying/thinking that:

    ........."300 years ago they didn't have Policy X, and now they do. Therefore repealing Policy X will cause society to regress 300 years."


    It's also illogical to make baseless assumptions.
    Last edited by nonpareil; 03-10-11 at 10:23 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    In Public Unions the employers are politicians who benefit from doing favors for the Unions. It's the taxpayers who pay the bills and have no say in the matter.
    hmmm....taxpayers...aren't union members taxpayers?.....wait a minute...don't these politicians have to be elected? which means people have to vote...might these people even be taxpayers??....hmmmmmmm......kinda shoots a hole in the theory that taxpayers have no voice....

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    In Public Unions the employers are politicians who benefit from doing favors for the Unions. It's the taxpayers who pay the bills and have no say in the matter.
    Actually, the Taxpayers are the ones who employ the Politicians, and have the entirety of the say in the matter (since they elect the politicians.)
    “The more you know, the harder it is to take decisive action. Once you become informed, you start seeing complexities and shades of gray. You realize that nothing is as clear and simple as it first appears. Ultimately, knowledge is paralyzing.” - Bill Watterson
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